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View Full Version : David Wells vs. Brett Cecil vs. Aaron Loup



Olerud363
05-09-2013, 09:59 AM
23 years ago in a similiar situation a fat reliever named David Wells was stretched out.

Why not stretch out Cecil, or Loup, or Brad Lincoln even?? Loup has allready looked good for 3 innings.

And I know the superscouts will give me reasons why it can't be done. I'm not stupid. I realize that all these guys are better as relievers. That's not the point.

When the team is 13-22... when Aaron Laffey and 40 year old Ramon Ortiz are being dug up...

Sometimes you shouldn't think too hard. Brains are dangerous things. Humans have done all kinds of stupid wars and crazy stuff. So we gotta think we're not that smart. All we can do is think one step ahead.

1. Aaron Loup has thrown 3 good innings at times.

step 2. See if Aaron Loup can throw 4 or 5 good innings.

It's a simple algorithm. No super-scouts, no saber-gurus even, find out if Aaron Loup can throw 4 good innings and when you have that info then figure out the next step. You can always back track. That's all they did with David Wells. They tried to see if he could throw more good innings, and at times they backtracked given his performance and the needs of the organization.

If not Loup then Cecil or Lincon who (like Wells) have started before. No their not going to be as good starters as they are relievers. But if Santos is really back soon then...

Who the heck needs a losing team with 5 good relievers and no good starters?????

CHRIS
05-09-2013, 10:05 AM
I don't mind the idea of stretching out Loup, especially with Cecil and Oliver still available as LHRP. I would certainly have more confidence in this as opposed to the revolving door of AAA question marks.

kcjaysfan
05-09-2013, 11:17 AM
Sometimes you shouldn't think too hard. Brains are dangerous things. Humans have done all kinds of stupid wars and crazy stuff. So we gotta think we're not that smart. All we can do is think one step ahead.

Wow...just wow. This is one of the most ridiculous things I've read in a while. This "crazy stuff" that's done isn't a direct result of people using their brains. It's typically a result of greed, fear, or mental illness. If anything, we should be thinking even harder, and using our brains more.



Back on topic, I don't think we should try to stretch out Cecil. That's been done before and he wasn't terribly great at it. I think Loup might be a decent option. He's pitched three innings in one game before, as you mentioned. He's also pitched 2 to 2.1 innings in three out of his last four appearances.

Olerud363
05-09-2013, 11:34 AM
Wow...just wow. This is one of the most ridiculous things I've read in a while. This "crazy stuff" that's done isn't a direct result of people using their brains. It's typically a result of greed, fear, or mental illness. If anything, we should be thinking even harder, and using our brains more.



Back on topic, I don't think we should try to stretch out Cecil. That's been done before and he wasn't terribly great at it. I think Loup might be a decent option. He's pitched three innings in one game before, as you mentioned. He's also pitched 2 to 2.1 innings in three out of his last four appearances.

You think Goerge W. Bush and Dick Cheney have mental illness. I don't think so. They had a lot smart guys trying to figure out threats to the U.S., trying to figure out what the world would be like after the Iraq war, how long it would last, how much it would cost. All the projections were wrong.

A lot of "smart" economists made predictions in 2005 that were totally wrong. People like to think that a select few geniuses "predicted" the 2008 crisis, but that's bull. These people merely structured there investments assuming a crisis would come, but they weren't sure when.

Then the "stimulus" was suppose to stop the crisis. It didn't... atleast not as predicted.

Human's are bad at predicting one step ahead. But people live their lives according to "predictions" and hate uncertainty so will fight insanely to keep the illusion of prediction alive.

That is why the superscouts are so loved. They can predict exactly what players will become and make the world comfortable and orderly.

Cecil has changed his workout program completely since his last run at starting... and actually he wasn't that bad anyway. Cecil 2010 would be fine as a 4th/5th starter. It was only in 2012, with the loss of velocity that he completely fell apart.

Anyway I'm not saying I know which of these guys, Loup, Cecil, Lincoln, maybe even Rogers could start. Just saying the jays need to find a good way to find out. Start stretching all of them out a bit and if it's working stretch them a bit farther. With the way the starters have been pitching there should be plenty of opportunity for this anyway.

GD
05-09-2013, 12:24 PM
Stretching Cecil out would be so, so stupid, downright retarded.

I'd like to try Loup or Lincoln, though.

Metallijay
05-09-2013, 12:45 PM
Stretching Cecil out would be so, so stupid, downright retarded.

I'd like to try Loup or Lincoln, though.

Why? cecil has had success at this level as a starter.

wilko
05-09-2013, 01:02 PM
Why? cecil has had success at this level as a starter.

No thanks.

EdelweissBouquet
05-09-2013, 02:05 PM
" You think Goerge W. Bush and Dick Cheney have mental illness. I don't think so. They had a lot smart guys trying to figure out threats to the U.S., trying to figure out what the world would be like after the Iraq war, how long it would last, how much it would cost "

They didn't care how long the war lasts or the costs including lives.
They cared about the oil, that was their only objective.

Olerud363
05-09-2013, 03:25 PM
I don't think anybody knows if stretching Cecil out would be stupid or not.

That's why you try it. If Cecil could return to 2010 starting form, what he has done before, that would help.

Maybe Loup is the better choice though. He has looked pretty smooth in his multiinning outings. He looks like the kind of guy who could get through 7 on 90 pitches. That might all change once he gets passed 3 innings... I don't know.

Arkadium
05-09-2013, 03:27 PM
Both seem like really poor candidates to be stretched out... why on earth would you want to mess up a good thing? Specifically Cecil because he's only good vs. Lefties and Loup because of his mechanics.

Olerud363
05-09-2013, 03:28 PM
I'm all for this. The upside is useful starter, and the downside is minimal - someone goes Daniel Bard on you. We're starting Ramon Ortiz here.

Yeah. And I think with the state of the rotation you can almost do it in a safe way. Do a couple of "temporary" piggy back starts and if one of those guys is looking good for multiple innings, stretch it out a bit more.

Or when Ramon Ortiz implodes it'll be a good chance to do it in a non-pressure situation.

Olerud363
05-09-2013, 03:32 PM
Both seem like really poor candidates to be stretched out... why on earth would you want to mess up a good thing? Specifically Cecil because he's only good vs. Lefties and Loup because of his mechanics.

And the good thing that will be messed up is?? our current powerhouse team?? Ramon Ortiz's comeback??

If Loup's mechanics are bad then he could get injured in the bullpen anyway.

GD
05-09-2013, 04:41 PM
Why? cecil has had success at this level as a starter.

That was pre-dead arm.