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View Full Version : The JPA is the best thread.



dineke
05-06-2013, 10:30 PM
Haters gonna hate.

dineke
05-06-2013, 10:32 PM
Ok I got overly excited, mods delete this thread please.

The Cats Ass
05-06-2013, 10:34 PM
He only knows how to be clutch.

willhs14
05-06-2013, 10:34 PM
LOL also the first reactionary thread

Geerod
05-06-2013, 10:34 PM
Not to mention you spelt Escobar wrong.

Geerod
05-06-2013, 10:35 PM
Oh the irony... it's spelled.

theblujay
05-06-2013, 10:36 PM
Is it so bad to support our players?

Renegade
05-06-2013, 10:41 PM
How is starting a garbage thread supporting a player? Do you change your facebook picture to support causes and charities too?

theblujay
05-06-2013, 10:47 PM
How is starting a garbage thread supporting a player? Do you change your facebook picture to support causes and charities too?

What? I'm saying is it so unimaginable that someone could actually support JPA that any thread praising m must be deleted.

JohnnyLonghorn
05-06-2013, 10:52 PM
Sub par defence, atrocious K/BB ratio, and subsequently poor OBP, but I'll be damned if he hasn't been our most clutch hitter with RISP BY FAR this year.

KSaw
05-06-2013, 10:52 PM
Yep, he did what he can do-- smash mistake pitches. Happy he hit the homer but end of the day, he should have. It was a flat fastball down the middle from a tired closer who was over 30 pitches.

dineke
05-06-2013, 10:53 PM
Sub par defence, atrocious K/BB ratio, and subsequently poor OBP, but I'll be damned if he hasn't been our most clutch hitter with RISP BY FAR this year.

I still think he's terrible, but tonight I love him.

Renegade
05-06-2013, 10:57 PM
What? I'm saying is it so unimaginable that someone could actually support JPA that any thread praising m must be deleted.

Haha I'm all riled man sorry

Arkadium
05-06-2013, 11:01 PM
Man I still don't like him, he costs us games.. but he does seem good in the clutch!

Caper
05-06-2013, 11:03 PM
I almost wanted to start a thread.... and I am serious when I say this..... I almost thought Boni would have been better off breaking for home if strike 2 was called....and I'm still not sure if that would have been a bad decision.

High88
05-06-2013, 11:15 PM
It's either feast or famine with JPA. Of course with the Blue Jays lack of committed ownership and willingness to improve their product, you can't expect anything more from the worst starting catcher in baseball. Enjoy it while it lasts.

1.7% BB
35.9% K

Boxcar
05-06-2013, 11:16 PM
Haters gonna hate.

I hate you

jays_fever
05-06-2013, 11:20 PM
I have it on good authority that RBI GUYZ win games, OBP doesnt.

Camps
05-06-2013, 11:27 PM
His power is awesome, great mistake crusher, below average at everything else, but he hits enough home runs to have value. John Buck 2.0? 1.1?

vdartanian
05-07-2013, 12:24 AM
Happy to see JP have a moment, but we all know it won't last, for every mistake he crushes, there are 8-9 balls he completely butchers behind the plate...and twice as many AB's where he looks completely terrible and gets himself out.

In his first couple years I used to get on JP because he was never aggressive enough at the plate...now it looks like he's one a 180 and is swinging at absolutely everything....good to know that if he does run into one, he has the power to leave the yard.

GD
05-07-2013, 07:14 AM
He's going to hit 30 home runs this year, the casuals are gonna love him, we're gonna extent him 3/35, Brian McCann's gonna sign with the Yankees for a similar price, and I'm gonna jump off a cliff.

eastcoastjaysfan
05-07-2013, 07:49 AM
JPA in terms of catchers:

HR 2nd
RBI 5th
wOBA 10th..
BB% Last

If this goon could just take a freaking walk every once in a while and block a few more balls he'd be a 4-5 WAR guy due to the crazy raw power. The eye at the plate is probably past the point of no return but FFS defense is something you can actually improve on. Pitch framing/how to properly receive a pitch seems like it'd be one of the more teachable skills in the game.

eastcoastjaysfan
05-07-2013, 07:51 AM
Like how the heck do you strike out 42 times and walk twice

You'd think that you'd get at least 5-6 ABs where the pitcher just cannot locate at all. It seems like an almost impossible task.

Metallijay
05-07-2013, 08:02 AM
He needs to be more patient, and he is one of the worst defensive catchers in the league. Yes he can hit the HR, but he wont keep this pace, and defens eis more important for a catcher.

o2cui2i
05-07-2013, 08:02 AM
Like how the heck do you strike out 42 times and walk twice

You'd think that you'd get at least 5-6 ABs where the pitcher just cannot locate at all. It seems like an almost impossible task.

I've counted 4 times where a ball 4 way off the plate was called a strike 3 for JPA. so he has had to deal with ump bullshit too.

CHRIS
05-07-2013, 09:26 AM
You'd think that you'd get at least 5-6 ABs where the pitcher just cannot locate at all. It seems like an almost impossible task.

He probably does get these ABs, but lets the pitcher off the hook. I recall one AB with ball four in the dirt and JPA went down and golfed it into CF as a lazy fly ball.

Somehow, somebody needs to convince JPA that taking a walk is OK.

saskjaysfan
05-07-2013, 09:53 AM
JP is what he is - an all-or-nothing power hitter with a brutal contact rate and brutal defense. If he was our DH, he would actually be pretty valuable. If we could get a legit game-calling catcher with good contact rate and as our everyday catcher, I'd be thrilled. A Gregg Zaun-type catcher would be a major upgrade, as weird as that is.

Dude
05-07-2013, 10:11 AM
It's either feast or famine with JPA. Of course with the Blue Jays lack of committed ownership and willingness to improve their product, you can't expect anything more from the worst starting catcher in baseball. Enjoy it while it lasts.

1.7% BB
35.9% K

First banning bwahahahah

fatcowxlive
05-07-2013, 10:27 AM
lol I think JP will be catching everyone, but Dickey, for sure now

1st Blanco start w/o Dickey: Blanco 0/2, JP 1/2 HR

wilko
05-07-2013, 10:30 AM
Arencibia's a feast or famine player. His 2/42 BB/K ratio shows.

Metallijay
05-07-2013, 10:37 AM
He probably does get these ABs, but lets the pitcher off the hook. I recall one AB with ball four in the dirt and JPA went down and golfed it into CF as a lazy fly ball.

Somehow, somebody needs to convince JPA that taking a walk is OK.

Yeah this has been an issue for him and a few of our hitters. Swinging at bad pitches.

saskjaysfan
05-07-2013, 11:15 AM
Uhmm no he wouldn't, he's below replacement value at DH. His only value is at the catcher position. His bat is okay for the position, but the problem lies in his defense.

I wasn't trying to imply that his bat didn't play at catcher, because it does. I just mean that his defense is so awful that it nullifies the things he actually does well offensively. The way he is hitting right now, I don't see how he could be below replacement level at DH. I realize DH has the lowest positional adjustment when calculating WAR, but he is .ops'ing .809 this year, just .007 less than Billy Butler, who is widely regarded as one of the best designated hitters in the league.

dineke
05-07-2013, 11:18 AM
I wasn't trying to imply that his bat didn't play at catcher, because it does. I just mean that his defense is so awful that it nullifies the things he actually does well offensively. The way he is hitting right now, I don't see how he could be below replacement level at DH. I realize DH has the lowest positional adjustment when calculating WAR, but he is .ops'ing .809 this year, just .007 less than Billy Butler, who is widely regarded as one of the best designated hitters in the league.

Huge regression is coming soon. His insane flyball/HR rate is going to come down and then he'll become useless.

SAAviour
05-07-2013, 11:26 AM
If he was the DH you also think he could concentrate on just hitting and possibly work on improving his walk rate. Right now it is likely that all the pre game work he does is working with the pitchers.

CHRIS
05-07-2013, 11:30 AM
If he was the DH you also think he could concentrate on just hitting and possibly work on improving his walk rate. Right now it is likely that all the pre game work he does is working with the pitchers.

I think walk rate is part of a general philosophy of hitting. I don't think his walk rate is poor because he's distracted by his positional requirements, I think his walk rate is poor due to his general approach and pitch recognition.

Angrioter
05-07-2013, 11:33 AM
JP Arencibia
Passball 6 > 2 walk

GD
05-07-2013, 04:29 PM
If he was our DH, he would actually be pretty valuable.

what is this I don't even

theblujay
05-07-2013, 04:57 PM
He's a little better than many people on here think he is. I think that has to do with the fact that many people seem to "love to hate" JPA. I'm not sure why we have to be so negative towards him, why can't we hope he has a good year and gets better?

GD
05-07-2013, 04:58 PM
He's a little better than many people on here think he is. I think that has to do with the fact that many people seem to "love to hate" JPA. I'm not sure why we have to be so negative towards him, why can't we hope he has a good year and gets better?

Oh, I definitely hope he gets better.

He just really, really fucking sucks.

Metallijay
05-07-2013, 05:22 PM
He's a little better than many people on here think he is. I think that has to do with the fact that many people seem to "love to hate" JPA. I'm not sure why we have to be so negative towards him, why can't we hope he has a good year and gets better?

Umm no, he is really bad at his position. Don't you think everyone hopes he gets better? Isn't that obvious?

theblujay
05-07-2013, 05:43 PM
Oh, I definitely hope he gets better.

He just really, really fucking sucks.

This is what I'm talking about. He's not as bad as you guys make it seem. Sure he has an all or nothing approach and his defense is around average...but he's not the worst player every like you make it seem.

Metallijay
05-07-2013, 05:45 PM
This is what I'm talking about. He's not as bad as you guys make it seem. Sure he has an all or nothing approach and his defense is around average...but he's not the worst player every like you make it seem.

Around average, in the minors maybe, his D is horrendous, one of the worst in baseball. He also cannot throw out runners at all. His numbers cannot sustain themselves so so many K's and almost no walks, too many fly outs.

havok24
05-07-2013, 05:49 PM
This is what I'm talking about. He's not as bad as you guys make it seem. Sure he has an all or nothing approach and his defense is around average...but he's not the worst player every like you make it seem.

He is beyond atrocious behind the plate defensively, and how the heck is it possible to have a 2:42 BB:K ratio? lol

Smokey
05-07-2013, 05:53 PM
Finally hearing some talks on PT about how terrible JP is at receiving pitches and how MB might have actually asked for a different catcher last night. I don't know why it took them so long to catch on?? Still good to hear though..

silvergun
05-07-2013, 05:57 PM
it sure is, I'm not sure how this has gone under the radar for the most part outside of Toronto...I know most people don't care for the most part, but he's point-and-laugh bad behind the plate.

theblujay
05-07-2013, 05:57 PM
Around average, in the minors maybe, his D is horrendous, one of the worst in baseball. He also cannot throw out runners at all. His numbers cannot sustain themselves so so many K's and almost no walks, too many fly outs.

He's also not going to sustain a 21:1 K:BB ratio and he's had a number of bad calls in 3-2 counts. He barely an average player, but you guys act like he's the worst ever. We have plenty of players on our team with -WAR and JP isn't one.

GD
05-07-2013, 06:01 PM
This is what I'm talking about. He's not as bad as you guys make it seem. Sure he has an all or nothing approach and his defense is around average...but he's not the worst player every like you make it seem.

What the high holy fuck?


He's also not going to sustain a 21:1 K:BB ratio and he's had a number of bad calls in 3-2 counts. He barely an average player, but you guys act like he's the worst ever. We have plenty of players on our team with -WAR and JP isn't one.

And you know this how?

theblujay
05-07-2013, 06:04 PM
What the high holy fuck?



And you know this how?

The same reason you know his HR/FB rate will regress. You're blinded by the hate.

About the defense, I think he's looked pretty good aside from opening night. Pitching framing I don't know much about.

Metallijay
05-07-2013, 06:05 PM
The same reason you know his HR/FB rate will regress. You're blinded by the hate.

About the defense, I think he's looked pretty good aside from opening night. Pitching framing I don't know much about.

You lose any credibility when you say his D is pretty good, he is probably the worst defensive catcher in baseball. Cannot block balls in the dirt well, cannot throw out runners, bad at catching/framing pitches...

Thats the point, he cannot sustain his offense the way he hits.

GD
05-07-2013, 06:06 PM
The same reason you know his HR/FB rate will regress. You're blinded by the hate.

About the defense, I think he's looked pretty good aside from opening night. Pitching framing I don't know much about.

Okay, but HR/FB is to a large extent, luck. JPA just can't take a fucking walk. I'm not blinded, you're just fangirling over JPA, which is really fucking annoying.

His defense has been pathetic and his pitch framing cost the team, what, ~1.6 wins last year? If the data is to be believed.

theblujay
05-07-2013, 06:09 PM
So you guys think he HR/FB will definitely regress, but his K:BB rate won't?

You've over exaggerating how bad his defense is and I wouldn't call it pathetic.

Why do you have such a problem with JP when we're sending out players like Boni and Izturis who have less than -.5 WAR?

Chappy
05-07-2013, 06:10 PM
Okay, but HR/FB is to a large extent, luck. JPA just can't take a fucking walk. I'm not blinded, you're just fangirling over JPA, which is really fucking annoying.

His defense has been pathetic and his pitch framing cost the team, what, ~1.6 wins last year? If the data is to be believed.

Honestly, if he played even average D, I wouldn't care about his OBP. But his D is some of the worst I have witnessed on an ongoing basis. It is not MLB worthy D unless he is putting up all start caliber offensive stats and he is certainly not.

I think we have all seen enough that poor D up the middle can cost this team a lot of games. I just wonder when this organization will realize we have a better option in AAA.

Metallijay
05-07-2013, 06:11 PM
So you guys think he HR/FB will definitely regress, but his K:BB rate won't?

You've over exaggerating how bad his defense is and I wouldn't call it pathetic.

Why do you have such a problem with JP when we're sending out players like Boni and Izturis who have less than -.5 WAR?

HUH? Who said we were OK with Boni and izturis? No one is. And that has zero to do with JP. Yes his D is that bad. HR/FB is a lot diff the K/BB JP was never a guy who walked, thats the type of hitter he is, thats is not all of a sudden going to change. HR's always come in bunches, he wont keep this pace.

theblujay
05-07-2013, 06:12 PM
Honestly, if he played even average D, I wouldn't care about his OBP. But his D is some of the worst I have witnessed on an ongoing basis. It is not MLB worthy D unless he is putting up all start caliber offensive stats and he is certainly not.

I think we have all seen enough that poor D up the middle can cost this team a lot of games. I just wonder when this organization will realize we have a better option in AAA.

I must be watching different games than you because his D this year has looked improved from last year and its definitely not the worst I've ever seen.

Metallijay
05-07-2013, 06:14 PM
I must be watching different games than you because his D this year has looked improved from last year and its definitely not the worst I've ever seen.

You must be watching different games, because his D has been terrible.

theblujay
05-07-2013, 06:16 PM
You must be watching different games, because his D has been terrible.

I'm not going to bother arguing with you over a subjective observation. His D has improved from the mess he was last year, and he hasn't been horrendous. You just love to hate him. There's no need for so much hate for one of our own players.

Chappy
05-07-2013, 06:17 PM
I must be watching different games than you because his D this year has looked improved from last year and its definitely not the worst I've ever seen.

I think you stand heavily in the minority on this one. I try to be as objective as possible, and I really want JPA to succeed for this team, but his D is not worthy of being a starting catcher on a team that is supposed to contend.

GD
05-07-2013, 06:17 PM
So you guys think he HR/FB will definitely regress, but his K:BB rate won't?

You've over exaggerating how bad his defense is and I wouldn't call it pathetic.

Why do you have such a problem with JP when we're sending out players like Boni and Izturis who have less than -.5 WAR?

Um, yes, regression to the mean..?

You wouldn't call it pathetic because you're a fangirl.

I have a problem with Boni, though, that's just the thing, he's not the only the player I hate (JPA). I hate Boni too, does that mean I can't fucking hate Arencibia, too? (Izturis is pretty obviously turning it around imo, though)


Honestly, if he played even average D, I wouldn't care about his OBP. But his D is some of the worst I have witnessed on an ongoing basis. It is not MLB worthy D unless he is putting up all start caliber offensive stats and he is certainly not.

I think we have all seen enough that poor D up the middle can cost this team a lot of games. I just wonder when this organization will realize we have a better option in AAA.

Exactly, he'd probably be a really nice catcher if he could, well, catch. But he can't. It's pathetic.

theblujay
05-07-2013, 06:19 PM
I think you stand heavily in the minority on this one. I try to be as objective as possible, and I really want JPA to succeed for this team, but his D is not worthy of being a starting catcher on a team that is supposed to contend.

I'll stand by opinion until I see something to change it and I realize I'm in the minority. At least you don't have the irrational hate for JPA and wish for him to fail like more than half this board.

GD
05-07-2013, 06:21 PM
I'm not going to bother arguing with you over a subjective observation. His D has improved from the mess he was last year, and he hasn't been horrendous. You just love to hate him. There's no need for so much hate for one of our own players.

Both metrics, the eye test from people other than fan girls, and common fucking sense disagree.

Look, I really want Arencibia to succeed, I nearly bought his jersey a few years ago. When he first came up, I'd go to games and look specifically for him, try to get his autograph. On opening weekend 2011 (I think.. the day Drabek threw that insane 1 hitter) vs the Twins, he was signing autos, and I JUST missed one. I was heart broken.

I really want him to succeed, and I want what's best for the team. However, he's a really, really fucking bad catcher right now, and the only reason he has any value whatsoever is because he plays catcher, fairly ironically.

This isn't about hate, it's about being realistic.

Metallijay
05-07-2013, 06:24 PM
Both metrics, the eye test from people other than fan girls, and common fucking sense disagree.

Look, I really want Arencibia to succeed, I nearly bought his jersey a few years ago. When he first came up, I'd go to games and look specifically for him, try to get his autograph. On opening weekend 2011 (I think.. the day Drabek threw that insane 1 hitter) vs the Twins, he was signing autos, and I JUST missed one. I was heart broken.

I really want him to succeed, and I want what's best for the team. However, he's a really, really fucking bad catcher right now, and the only reason he has any value whatsoever is because he plays catcher, fairly ironically.

This isn't about hate, it's about being realistic.

Even buck martinez and greg zaun called out JP a lot the last few weeks over constant cross ups with pitchers, inability to frame pitches, block balls in the dirt. He's useless throwing out runners. Anyone who has watched baseball can see JP is a bad catcher.

We are jays fans we obviously want him to be great, the only person being irrational is you. Trying to excuse away his lack of catcher skills.

theblujay
05-07-2013, 06:24 PM
Both metrics, the eye test from people other than fan girls, and common fucking sense disagree.

Look, I really want Arencibia to succeed, I nearly bought his jersey a few years ago. When he first came up, I'd go to games and look specifically for him, try to get his autograph. On opening weekend 2011 (I think.. the day Drabek threw that insane 1 hitter) vs the Twins, he was signing autos, and I JUST missed one. I was heart broken.

I really want him to succeed, and I want what's best for the team. However, he's a really, really fucking bad catcher right now, and the only reason he has any value whatsoever is because he plays catcher, fairly ironically.

This isn't about hate, it's about being realistic.

Like I said it's not worth arguing over when you clearly have an extreme view that isn't going to change.

dineke
05-07-2013, 06:25 PM
I really do hope JPA will break baseball logic this year. 45 hrs with a .260 OBP would be hilarious!

Chappy
05-07-2013, 06:25 PM
I'll stand by opinion until I see something to change it and I realize I'm in the minority. At least you don't have the irrational hate for JPA and wish for him to fail like more than half this board.

I have no hate for anyone. I don't like his attitude which I think comes from immaturity (ie. twitter), but if he can work on a few things he could be ok moving forward. It just upsets me that we could use Thole up here and he is rotting away in AAA.

GD
05-07-2013, 06:26 PM
Even buck martinez and greg zaun called out JP a lot the last few weeks over constant cross ups with pitchers, inability to frame pitches, block balls in the dirt. He's useless throwing out runners. Anyone who has watched baseball can see JP is a bad catcher.

We are jays fans we obviously want him to be great, the only person being irrational is you. Trying to excuse away his lack of catcher skills.

Hasn't he been decent at throwing guys out every year but this one, though?


As the saying goes ignorance is bliss!

+1 (too lazy to thank)


Like I said it's not worth arguing over when you clearly have an extreme view that isn't going to change.

The irony of this is delicious. My view is fairly adaptable due to my extreme wanting to like Arencibia, but I just can't. Fuck, the only thing extreme is how much I hate your fangirling, lol.

Chappy
05-07-2013, 06:26 PM
I really do hope JPA will break baseball logic this year. 45 hrs with a .260 OBP would be hilarious!

The problem is he seems to refuse to take a walk. Time and time again I see him swing at ball 4 and it almost seems like he just doesn't like to walk. Beer league mentality?

theblujay
05-07-2013, 06:27 PM
I have no hate for anyone. I don't like his attitude which I think comes from immaturity (ie. twitter), but if he can work on a few things he could be ok moving forward. It just upsets me that we could use Thole up here and he is rotting away in AAA.

I'd have no problem platooning Thole with JPA, but AA is off in his own world where the Jays are in first. I actually like his confident attitude and I like how he seems to be well-liked in the clubhouse, by the organization and by many fans.

theblujay
05-07-2013, 06:32 PM
The problem is he seems to refuse to take a walk. Time and time again I see him swing at ball 4 and it almost seems like he just doesn't like to walk. Beer league mentality?

I'm not too concerned with his K:BB rate as it will normalize, although it still won't be good. Realistically we cannot have a lineup of all high OBP guys, so have an all or nothing guy isn't the end of the world.

dineke
05-07-2013, 06:35 PM
The problem is he seems to refuse to take a walk. Time and time again I see him swing at ball 4 and it almost seems like he just doesn't like to walk. Beer league mentality?

What's funny is that he had a 7.4% walk rate in 2011. Mottola needs to explain to him how his 1.7% walk rate right now is unacceptable but I have a feeling he wont listen because he's having some lucky success right now and his ego is the size of my dick.

GD
05-07-2013, 06:36 PM
What's funny is that he had a 7.4% walk rate in 2011. Mottola needs to explain to him how his 1.7% walk rate right now is unacceptable but I have a feeling he wont listen because he's having some lucky success right now and his ego is the size of my dick.

False, JPA has a big ego.

dineke
05-07-2013, 06:38 PM
False, JPA has a big ego.

reported

Chappy
05-07-2013, 06:38 PM
I'm not too concerned with his K:BB rate as it will normalize, although it still won't be good. Realistically we cannot have a lineup of all high OBP guys, so have an all or nothing guy isn't the end of the world.

I don't mind all the K's if he was more willing to at least take a few more walks. Sometimes those walks are just handed to him and he swings for the fences, I just don't get his approach. He could actually be a legit middle of the order threat if he could recognize when pitchers are sometimes trying to pitch around him to avoid giving up the long ball.

GD
05-07-2013, 06:46 PM
reported

u mad bro?

dineke
05-07-2013, 06:54 PM
u mad bro?

Mad that your mom told you my dick size. Zing!

Chappy
05-07-2013, 06:59 PM
Mad that your mom told you my dick size. Zing!

I think you just zinged yourself, lol.

GD
05-07-2013, 06:59 PM
Mad that your mom told you my dick size. Zing!

reported.

GD
05-07-2013, 07:00 PM
I think you just zinged yourself, lol.

LOL I think he got me and himself. That takes skill.

Edit: Wait, no, banging my mom isn't something to be proud of, he only zinged himself.

dineke
05-07-2013, 07:00 PM
I think you just zinged yourself, lol.

Fuck

Metallijay
05-07-2013, 08:56 PM
zaun called out jp again on his D on that play at the plate.

Dick_Pole
05-07-2013, 10:02 PM
Arencibia needs to get his eyes checked. Everything I read about that man is that he gave it his all to improve his game this offseason. So far all I've seen is his slugging game get better, and his defense and pitch selection get worse. Every time he's out there it looks like he's catching 1991 Juan Guzman for the first time. It's like he has no depth perception, no ability to track the movement on pitches from pitchers he is allegedly familiar with. His complete lack of ability to frame pitches and his disgusting K/BB ratio leads me to think he has some kind of vision issue. You don't make it to the MLB as a catcher with such serious flaws in catching ability that seems to be getting worse otherwise. I'm sure half the people on this board could frame pitches better than him if we had a couple months of spring training to practice working with the pitching staff.

havok24
05-07-2013, 10:04 PM
2BB:45K

lol

wilko
05-07-2013, 11:49 PM
2BB:45K

lol

That's cringe worthy.