• CHC 6
    SF 2
    Final
    2:20 PM ET
  • NYY 2
    LAA 1
    In Progress
    Top 9th
  • PIT 8
    STL 1
    Final
    7:05 PM ET
  • PHI 5
    TOR 6
    Game Over
    7:05 PM ET
  • BOS 6
    ATL 2
    In Progress
    Bottom 8th
  • CLE 2
    HOU 4
    In Progress
    End 9th
  • MIA 5
    WSH 7
    In Progress
    Top 8th
  • TB 0
    BAL 2
    Final
    7:10 PM ET
  • DET 5
    CWS 4
    Game Over
    7:10 PM ET
  • TEX 6
    KC 3
    In Progress
    Top 7th
  • MIL 3
    NYM 2
    In Progress
    Top 8th
  • COL 4
    CIN 4
    In Progress
    Top 5th
  • OAK 0
    ARI 1
    In Progress
    Top 3rd
  • LAD 0
    SD 0
    In Progress
    Top 1st
  • SEA 0
    MIN 0
    Warmup
    10:10 PM ET
Page 2 of 148 FirstFirst 12341252102 ... LastLast
Results 17 to 32 of 2364

Thread: Can Ryan Goins stick?

  1. #17
    Blue Chip Prospect CHRIS's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    1,339
    Thanks
    275
    Thanked 481 Times in 273 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by NJH View Post
    I shudder to think of the terrible offseason that would lead to Ryan fucking Goins being "the best option" at any position.
    That was pretty much last offseason.
    #LoViste

  2. #18
    Hall of Famer Laika's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    16,472
    Thanks
    1,185
    Thanked 8,813 Times in 4,906 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by CHRIS View Post
    That was pretty much last offseason.
    #LoViste
    True. And it still hurts.

  3. #19
    Big Leaguer Caper's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    3,177
    Thanks
    220
    Thanked 331 Times in 245 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by KingKat View Post
    Why would you give him an opportunity to stick when you control him and he has options? This isn't the Houston Astros. It's not open tryouts. Just because the team blows now, doesn't change the fact that the Jays are in win now mode and eyeing contention in 2014. The opportunity to play should not extend beyond 2013. Guys like Goins and Pillar look like they could provide good insurance in the minors and that's great news but the Jays can't afford to get carried away and have anymore Eric Thames experiments. I'm not saying these guys couldn't work out better than Thames. They very well might but it would be foolish to bank on that no matter how well they play in 2013. One of the things the Jays have lacked in recent years is minor leaguers who can support the Major League team. If they finally have a few guys like that, the worst thing they can do is bump them to the majors.


    Contending or not contending.... almost every team is going through a "Eric Thames" experiment somewhere on the field.

  4. #20
    MVP gruber92's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    12,645
    Thanks
    833
    Thanked 1,423 Times in 1,068 Posts
    Defensively, he's just as good if not better than any free agent option out there, and not much worse offensively ( except for Cano of course). Unless we trade for Kendrick or maybe Altuve, why spend on this position? Address the SP, LF, DH and C before anything else. Let's not make another lateral move that costs more money, commitment and an older player to boot. AA may have his hands tied on this one, as i think there isn't enough money to address all the other innefinciancies this team has.

  5. #21
    Hall of Famer KingKat's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    17,471
    Thanks
    14,604
    Thanked 6,033 Times in 3,858 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by gruber92 View Post
    Defensively, he's just as good if not better than any free agent option out there, and not much worse offensively ( except for Cano of course). Unless we trade for Kendrick or maybe Altuve, why spend on this position? Address the SP, LF, DH and C before anything else. Let's not make another lateral move that costs more money, commitment and an older player to boot. AA may have his hands tied on this one, as i think there isn't enough money to address all the other innefinciancies this team has.
    It's a sticky situation for sure. You don't want to block guys just to block guys like this year where a Kawasaki/Derosa platoon would have provided better production then the two guys who got the bulk of the starts. That being said you do ideally want bench players and relievers with options to expand your roster. Goins could be what Kawasaki was this year, a good utility man to call up when you need him but that only works if you're not fielding shittier players on your 25 man roster.

  6. #22
    Hall of Famer Laika's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    16,472
    Thanks
    1,185
    Thanked 8,813 Times in 4,906 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by gruber92 View Post
    Defensively, he's just as good if not better than any free agent option out there, and not much worse offensively ( except for Cano of course). Unless we trade for Kendrick or maybe Altuve, why spend on this position? Address the SP, LF, DH and C before anything else. Let's not make another lateral move that costs more money, commitment and an older player to boot. AA may have his hands tied on this one, as i think there isn't enough money to address all the other innefinciancies this team has.
    Excuse me sir, but I think you may have been dropped on your head as a young child.

    Ryan Goins is 25 years old and he had an 89 wRC+ in AAA this year. Digest that information for a minute, and then tell me you honestly think he's a major league starter.

    Truthfully, Melky and Lind would both very probably be much better options at their respective positions than Goins would be at 2B. 2B is as glaring a hole as C and SP.

    C - top priority due to weakness of current player and position trickle down effect on starting rotation. A one year vet stop gap would be fine.
    SP - co-top priority due to glaring overall weakness and lack of depth.
    2B - near top priority due to weakness of current penciled in starter (Mouser). Goins and Kawasaki provide decent depth, but neither are major league starters. Izturis should probably be let go in the offseason, since both Kawasaki and Goins would be better bench players (they can actually play SS).
    DH/LF - upgrades highly recommended if there are enough funds. Worst case scenario, Lind and Melky should be below average but positive contributors in 2014 (assuming some leg health bounce back from Melky).

    Also, great job with " innefinciancies"

  7. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Laika For This Useful Post:

    Angrioter (08-28-2013),BTS (08-28-2013),Ehh (08-28-2013),GD (08-28-2013),Nox (08-28-2013),P2F (08-28-2013)

  8. #23
    DONOR Angrioter's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    D_R
    Posts
    24,734
    Thanks
    1,793
    Thanked 5,537 Times in 3,310 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by NJH View Post
    Excuse me sir, but I think you may have been dropped on your head as a young child.

    Ryan Goins is 25 years old and he had an 89 wRC+ in AAA this year. Digest that information for a minute, and then tell me you honestly think he's a major league starter.

    Truthfully, Melky and Lind would both very probably be much better options at their respective positions than Goins would be at 2B. 2B is as glaring a hole as C and SP.

    C - top priority due to weakness of current player and position trickle down effect on starting rotation. A one year vet stop gap would be fine.
    SP - co-top priority due to glaring overall weakness and lack of depth.
    2B - near top priority due to weakness of current penciled in starter (Mouser). Goins and Kawasaki provide decent depth, but neither are major league starters. Izturis should probably be let go in the offseason, since both Kawasaki and Goins would be better bench players (they can actually play SS).
    DH/LF - upgrades highly recommended if there are enough funds. Worst case scenario, Lind and Melky should be below average but positive contributors in 2014 (assuming some leg health bounce back from Melky).

    Also, great job with " innefinciancies"
    ...........Eres un hombre inteligente. Goins lives a good time but He don't have the tools to be starter in the majors.
    "Nadie aprende a batear de la noche a la manana" or "Nobody learns to hit of the night to the morning"
    Quote Originally Posted by Boxcar View Post
    Asia's suicide rate is very high; I'll try to raise it a little bit next month.

  9. #24
    MVP gruber92's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    12,645
    Thanks
    833
    Thanked 1,423 Times in 1,068 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by NJH View Post
    Excuse me sir, but I think you may have been dropped on your head as a young child.

    Ryan Goins is 25 years old and he had an 89 wRC+ in AAA this year. Digest that information for a minute, and then tell me you honestly think he's a major league starter.

    Truthfully, Melky and Lind would both very probably be much better options at their respective positions than Goins would be at 2B. 2B is as glaring a hole as C and SP.

    C - top priority due to weakness of current player and position trickle down effect on starting rotation. A one year vet stop gap would be fine.
    SP - co-top priority due to glaring overall weakness and lack of depth.
    2B - near top priority due to weakness of current penciled in starter (Mouser). Goins and Kawasaki provide decent depth, but neither are major league starters. Izturis should probably be let go in the offseason, since both Kawasaki and Goins would be better bench players (they can actually play SS).
    DH/LF - upgrades highly recommended if there are enough funds. Worst case scenario, Lind and Melky should be below average but positive contributors in 2014 (assuming some leg health bounce back from Melky).

    Also, great job with " innefinciancies"
    First of all, i want to apologize for any spelling errors that occurred while using my cell.

    Where the fuck did i say Goins should be our starting second baseman? If you read the previous posts, i stated he has about a 10% chance as sticking as a starter,and thats just my opinion. How does that constitute me believing he can be a starter? So he has a 89 wRC+ in AAA. So what you are saying is there is no way in hell he can make adjustments in his approach and/or swing that can improve his offense enough in order for him to stick, or maybe something may of clicked mentally that will allow him to improve. God knows something like this has never happened before. The way he turned those DP's was fucking refreshing. What was Bautista's projected wRC when he was 25? We let EE go just a few years ago FFS. Maybe Mottolla can work with him and figure something out,who knows.

    Lastly, if you want to make personal insults towards me because your opinion is different than mine, i'll gladly meet you somewhere where you can tell me to my face instead of being a punk cyber tough guy. Grow up.

  10. #25
    MVP gruber92's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    12,645
    Thanks
    833
    Thanked 1,423 Times in 1,068 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Angrioter View Post
    ...........Eres un hombre inteligente. Goins lives a good time but He don't have the tools to be starter in the majors.
    "Nadie aprende a batear de la noche a la manana" or "Nobody learns to hit of the night to the morning"
    Go ask Ryan Roberts. Even though it didn't last very long, he played in a ton of meaningful games.

  11. #26
    Hall of Famer Laika's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    16,472
    Thanks
    1,185
    Thanked 8,813 Times in 4,906 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by gruber92 View Post
    First of all, i want to apologize for any spelling errors that occurred while using my cell.

    Where the fuck did i say Goins should be our starting second baseman? If you read the previous posts, i stated he has about a 10% chance as sticking as a starter,and thats just my opinion. How does that constitute me believing he can be a starter? So he has a 89 wRC+ in AAA. So what you are saying is there is no way in hell he can make adjustments in his approach and/or swing that can improve his offense enough in order for him to stick, or maybe something may of clicked mentally that will allow him to improve. God knows something like this has never happened before. The way he turned those DP's was fucking refreshing. What was Bautista's projected wRC when he was 25? We let EE go just a few years ago FFS. Maybe Mottolla can work with him and figure something out,who knows.

    Lastly, if you want to make personal insults towards me because your opinion is different than mine, i'll gladly meet you somewhere where you can tell me to my face instead of being a punk cyber tough guy. Grow up.
    I seem to have rustled your jimmies.

    Since the traumatic brain injury that you suffered at such a young age might be affecting your memory, I'll paraphrase what you've brought to the table already:

    - Ryan Goins has a 10% chance to be a major league starter.
    - Ryan Goins defensively is as good as or better than any free agent options out there.
    - Ryan Goins offensively is not much worse than any free agent options out there.
    - Anything less than a trade for an Altuve/Kendrick type would be nothing but a lateral move, and a waste of money.

    Point by point rebuttal:

    - That percentage is ludicrously high.
    - Making any conclusions about his defensive prowess after 5 games is ridiculous.
    - Age vs. level and major league equivalencies would disagree with you by a large degree with respect to Goins' offensive abilities. He would probably project to hit even worse than... I dunno... guys like Yuni Betancourt and Hechavarria.
    - No. Lateral moves to giving Ryan Goins the nominal role would be somewhere in the neighbourhood of "giving Mike McCoy the reins".

    Since we're on the subject, my creative 2B solution would be exploring the possibility of giving Jhonny Peralta a Melky style PED buy-low.

  12. #27
    ECJF Level GD's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    26,361
    Thanks
    12,050
    Thanked 4,811 Times in 3,445 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by NJH View Post
    I seem to have rustled your jimmies.
    Best meme out there.

    Quote Originally Posted by NJH
    - Making any conclusions about his defensive prowess after 5 games is ridiculous.
    Fwiw, reports on his defense have always been pretty positive.

    Quote Originally Posted by NJH
    Since we're on the subject, my creative 2B solution would be exploring the possibility of giving Jhonny Peralta a Melky style PED buy-low.
    On a one year deal, this would be really nice.
    Quote Originally Posted by o2cui2i View Post
    climate change (lol)

  13. #28
    Big Leaguer
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    1,856
    Thanks
    389
    Thanked 830 Times in 501 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by gruber92 View Post
    Lastly, if you want to make personal insults towards me because your opinion is different than mine, i'll gladly meet you somewhere where you can tell me to my face instead of being a punk cyber tough guy. Grow up.
    I see the e-callout/rl-meetup request seems to be growing in popularity. I'm sure NJH can borrow his neighbor's moose and ride down to the designated throwdown area (Yonge/Bloor).

  14. #29
    Big Leaguer Caper's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    3,177
    Thanks
    220
    Thanked 331 Times in 245 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by NorthOf49 View Post
    He doesn't have any shot at starting. You need a certain amount of hitting talent to cut it as a Major League regular, and Goins doesn't have it. If you're saying he has upside, then you're also saying that hundreds of other players have upside. Every organization has four or five 24-26 year-olds who are best suited for AA with the bat.
    Just like Yan Gomes was supposed to be awful? Just like Yan Gomes had a zero percent chance of starting?

  15. #30
    Big Leaguer
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    1,856
    Thanks
    389
    Thanked 830 Times in 501 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Caper View Post
    Just like Yan Gomes was supposed to be awful? Just like Yan Gomes had a zero percent chance of starting?
    I have to admit the Yan Gomes thing is pretty funny. Just adds to the spectacular failure that is the JPA era.

  16. #31
    Big Leaguer Caper's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    3,177
    Thanks
    220
    Thanked 331 Times in 245 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by BTS View Post
    That's such a lazy and stupid point. Like bringing up Bautista and Edwin to support a ridiculous claim that some other 28-year old schmuck is about to break out because, hey, who knows?
    I don't know about Bautista. Edwin always looked really, really good when he was on.... on absolutely lost when he was off (like it was mental).

    I only liked Yan Gomes because he was smashing the ball in spring training.... which can be pretty meaningless. I got the same type of excitement with Jim Negrych.

    But as I think about Gomes now, in hindsight. The fact that he took up the game late as a kid.... the fact that he spent most of his college and minor league career as a backup...... he was always behind in AB's... and that meant something.

  17. #32
    MVP gruber92's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    12,645
    Thanks
    833
    Thanked 1,423 Times in 1,068 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by BTS View Post
    They were really positive for Hechavarria too. And a lot of other below-average players. Hurl brought Betancourt up a few days ago, but I remember watching a Mariners broadcast when he was just breaking in and they called him a magician with the glove. He had that reputation coming up through their system. The
    point: people can't really evaluate defense.

    Point is,if a player in a defensive position has shown and has proven he can play plus defense, combined with a small sampling of offense to go with, he's definitely worth the look.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •