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Thread: Politics Thread

  1. #33
    MVP Jimcanuck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boxcar View Post
    Cultural suicide. Will propagate this PC culture that is completely hostile to conservatives. Soon, it will become completely unacceptable to not hold far left views.

    You think that's hyperbole, but in Europe, people are being punished for having rational discussions about the refugee crisis over Facebook. I fear a very Orwellian Western culture in the next few years and it's precisely due to people like Hillary Clinton who work to keep the populace dumb and ignorant. I can see a point where people like Sam Harris, Ben Shapiro, Tarek Fatah, etc. are laughed away as fringe conspiracy theorists at an Alex Jonesian level.

    Maybe I overestimate how shitty things will be, but I can honestly see things going there pretty soon.
    Link?

    Hate laws exist in Europe for very good historical reasons. Is that what it is about?

  2. #34
    DONOR BTS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimcanuck View Post
    Link?

    Hate laws exist in Europe for very good historical reasons. Is that what it is about?
    This piece of shit being arrested is pretty nuts:

    http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2...tacks-arrested

  3. #35
    Orioles Hangout Admin Boxcar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BTS View Post
    This piece of shit being arrested is pretty nuts:

    http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2...tacks-arrested
    [email protected] arrested because you were an asshole on Twitter. You think that this is justice, Jim? A guy who doesn't like Muslims arrested for saying he doesn't like Muslims?
    Quote Originally Posted by Grant77 View Post
    I think we all know it's the latter. The Mariners have been a disgustingly bad offensive for a decade now and nothing has changed.

  4. #36
    Orioles Hangout Admin Boxcar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grant77 View Post
    I think we all know it's the latter. The Mariners have been a disgustingly bad offensive for a decade now and nothing has changed.

  5. #37
    MVP Jimcanuck's Avatar
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    And as far as PC goes, I'm sensing a large segment of the USA populace is moving in the opposite direction, to right-wing extremism.

    Limbaugh, Tea Party, Trump, etc

    If this continues there will be race wars in the streets that will put the Rodney King aftermath to shame.

  6. #38
    MVP intentional wok's Avatar
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    This is genuinely troubling. FB and Twitter are just about ubiquitous now. The authorities and legal reps both use social media for evidence-scouring or tip-off purposes, but for these networks to actively put the watchdog collar on? Very scary.

  7. #39
    DONOR BTS's Avatar
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    goddamn

  8. #40
    MVP Jimcanuck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boxcar View Post
    [email protected] arrested because you were an asshole on Twitter. You think that this is justice, Jim? A guy who doesn't like Muslims arrested for saying he doesn't like Muslims?
    That arrest is stupid based on the information given by the media, who knows if there is more to the story.

  9. #41
    All Star Cyborg's Avatar
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    Boxy must have an IQ of like 0. This explains his DDL team.

  10. #42
    MVP Jimcanuck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by intentional wok View Post
    This is genuinely troubling. FB and Twitter are just about ubiquitous now. The authorities and legal reps both use social media for evidence-scouring or tip-off purposes, but for these networks to actively put the watchdog collar on? Very scary.
    They probably have to. There is likely a legal duty to report, no different from any other business wrt illegal activity.

  11. #43
    MVP intentional wok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimcanuck View Post
    They probably have to. There is likely a legal duty to report, no different from any other business wrt illegal activity.
    Except "hate speech" has a loose definition, and Facebook -- a media service with overwhelming reach -- helping to enforce this loose definition is troublesome.

    This is a "TV watching you" scenario.

    You said earlier that there are good reasons for hate speech laws in Europe. The reasons are "good" in that they're well documented. But the actual laws are arguably an infringement on freedom of speech. Unless, of course, you think Europeans are more likely to become hate criminals than North Americans.

  12. #44
    MVP Jimcanuck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by intentional wok View Post
    Except "hate speech" has a loose definition, and Facebook -- a media service with overwhelming reach -- helping to enforce this loose definition is troublesome.

    This is a "TV watching you" scenario.

    You said earlier that there are good reasons for hate speech laws in Europe. The reasons are "good" in that they're well documented. But the actual laws are arguably an infringement on freedom of speech. Unless, of course, you think Europeans are more likely to become hate criminals than North Americans.
    Freedom of speech necessarily must have limitations, no different that other freedoms. You can't yell "Fire!" in a theatre... unless, of course, there is a fire.

    Not a lawyer and someone else can look up the legal definition.... but understand the threshold for a hate propaganda conviction is relatively high. It was a long drawn out case before Zundel was rightfully convicted.

    Hate propaganda is no different than many other legal concepts in that the definition is loose..... case law is used to guide decisions.

  13. #45
    MVP intentional wok's Avatar
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    Jim, it's not freedom of speech if it's limited.

    And I'm not following you down another four page rabbit hole. My point was about ubiquitous social media networks becoming an active ally to law enforcement on policing speech laws. It's only taken you two posts to warm up your de-rail, so I'm getting off this bus now.

  14. #46
    MVP Jimcanuck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by intentional wok View Post
    Jim, it's not freedom of speech if it's limited.

    And I'm not following you down another four page rabbit hole. My point was about ubiquitous social media networks becoming an active ally to law enforcement on policing speech laws. It's only taken you two posts to warm up your de-rail, so I'm getting off this bus now.
    Social media networks are a business and have legal responsibilities. They can look the other way at their own peril. I'm sure that whatever screening mechanisms they set up to remove hateful content will also forward the content to local authorities. Which no law abiding citizen should be concerned with, it could stop the next terrorist attack or a Breivik.

    If this changes your perception, you can call it 'derail' if you like.

  15. #47
    Big Leaguer Dick_Pole's Avatar
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    I guess the realization that Germany is a police state is news to people. My grandmother's relatives (although mostly in Austria) would seriously get nervous with stuff she said against the government on the phone in the 80's and 90's. This is what happens to a country/region which was torn apart and left as fodder for the Allies for 50 years. The rise of social media is just highlighting the asymmetry between North America and Europe in terms of what "freedom of speech" is, but this issue has always existed.

  16. #48
    MVP intentional wok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimcanuck View Post
    Social media networks are a business and have legal responsibilities. They can look the other way at their own peril. I'm sure that whatever screening mechanisms they set up to remove hateful content will also forward the content to local authorities. Which no law abiding citizen should be concerned with, it could stop the next terrorist attack or a Breivik.

    If this changes your perception, you can call it 'derail' if you like.
    Do you genuinely not see how scary it is that Facebook's screening mechanism should be delivering reports to the police? (Even, if it were actual people reading every reported post, do you think FB can be assed to hire actual legal experts to sift through everything?) Jim, do you honestly not see my point about how damaging it is to free speech that you can get reported to the police the same way you can get reported for a post on this board? If BJMB followed what you just described, I could report every user to the authorities before even finishing breakfast.

    And you use "law abiding" in a bit too sanctimonious a tone. Law abiding could mean anything depending on the law being abided.

    edit: And you were de-railing by changing the subject. You need to learn to see this. At least now we're talking about what I originally wrote.

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