Politics Thread

[Dr. Dinger]

Ok well that makes sense then. We waste too much time here anyway so I feel ya on that.

True, bud. I hate him, he got elected, it is what it is. Don't expect much more from me than some hit and run shots at this point.

[John_Havok]

Can anyone actually explain what's got Trump's panties in a twist about dairy in Canada being somehow unfair to US dairy producers?

[GD]

Can anyone actually explain what's got Trump's panties in a twist about dairy in Canada being somehow unfair to US dairy producers?

Leverage in future negotiations? Who knows

[AdamGreenwood]

Canada gives a ton of subsidies to our dairy farmers, which gives them an unfair competitive advantage. We do it, because Europe gives even greater subsidies.
It's something US dairy farmers have been complaining about for some time, and they're right.

[Dr. Dinger]

Can anyone actually explain what's got Trump's panties in a twist about dairy in Canada being somehow unfair to US dairy producers?

As usual, he simply doesn't understand the issue and he's just making whatever blowhard statement he thinks will curry favour with his constituents.

[Dr. Dinger]

Canada gives a ton of subsidies to our dairy farmers, which gives them an unfair competitive advantage. We do it, because Europe gives even greater subsidies.
It's something US dairy farmers have been complaining about for some time, and they're right.

That's not the issue, actually. The issue is that American dairy farmers are producing too much supply and relying too heavily on Canadians to buy it. A major Canadian buyer of ultra(superduper?)filtered milk from Wisconsin just pulled their business in favour of buying Canadian due to recent legislation which erases the price advantage for Wisconsin farmers (because superfuckinfiltered milk was except from tariffs or some kinda loophole like that). Donald Trump wants a free market, except when it hurts him, apparently. This isn't even about nationalism or protectionism, this is simply a matter of supply and demand.

[connorp]

It's better if you elect a president who already knew that a non-combative relationship with Russian is impossible while Putin is in charge. Instead, a man was elected who not only was under a very naive false impression, but is extremely irascible and already proven himself prone to military first strikes. Should go well.

.. Obama wasn't guilty of misplaced optimism and empty rhetoric when he was first elected President? That's how politicians roll. Trump no diff than anyone before him. Exceot you could argue he's much more assertive in at least attempting to follow the platform he ran on. D.C. Is really fucked up and he was never going to change status quo.

I'm at least glad the half-baked theories of him and the Russians has started to die down.

[Dr. Dinger]

I'm at least glad the half-baked theories of him and the Russians has started to die down.

Not at all. You seem to think that Russian collusion to get Trump elected and Russian brinksmanship now are mutually exclusive; this is another false assumption. Putin absolutely helped get Trump elected, but it has nothing to do with liking him or wanting to work with him. Putin's goal is to weaken America as a superpower by any means at his disposal, including by causing political chaos and helping a retard get elected. Now that Trump is in charge, it's in Putin's strategic interest to make Trump out as the idiot he is, because that is what weakens America the most and thereby draws America out of Russia's circle of influence by embroiling the country with its own internal conflict. It wouldn't surprise me at all if Putin orders leaks of Trump campaign contact with Russian diplomats prior to election now, the very best case scenario for Putin is to cause tremendous political instability in America, and he seems to hold the cards necessary to accomplish that.

[Terminator]

.. Obama wasn't guilty of misplaced optimism and empty rhetoric when he was first elected President? That's how politicians roll. Trump no diff than anyone before him. Exceot you could argue he's much more assertive in at least attempting to follow the platform he ran on. D.C. Is really fucked up and he was never going to change status quo.

I'm at least glad the half-baked theories of him and the Russians has started to die down.

Yeah it's definitely died down a lot. It's still very much alive and well on this board though, seems like BC and Jim don't seem to be posting daily updates anymore though. Looks like Dinger might be holding that flag now though if you challenge his assertions he'll just reply with IDGAF.

[Dr. Dinger]

Yeah it's definitely died down a lot. It's still very much alive and well on this board though, seems like BC and Jim don't seem to be posting daily updates anymore though. Looks like Dinger might be holding that flag now though if you challenge his assertions he'll just reply with IDGAF.

The problem here is that you two are looking at this from a pro-Trump perspective while completely disregarding Putin's strategic interests. Putin never liked Trump, couldn't give a shit about him as a person, and certainly never respected him as an intellectual. Nevertheless, he helped him get elected by hacking the DNC and leaking information to Hillary's detriment. If you are playing a game of chess on the world stage, would you rather play an equal, or a mental inferior? You need to take a holistic look at this and understand that Putin's intention was never to be friends with America -- his intention is to surpass America as the world's pre-eminent superpower.

[connorp]

Dinger your views are not reflective of the purpose of the Trump/Russia witch hunt by the left and media.
There's far less scandal in your theory and it's not something you could have an impeachment fantasy over

[Dr. Dinger]

Dinger your views are not reflective of the purpose of the Trump/Russia witch hunt by the left and media.
There's far less scandal in your theory and it's not something you could have an impeachment fantasy over

What is that alleged purpose? To depose Trump? If so, Putin's intention is immaterial -- the only thing that matters is Trump's breach of protocol. Whether Putin knowingly lured him into doing something he shouldn't have really doesn't matter to the witch hunt, the only result they care about is removing Trump from power. Putin can both have wanted Trump to get elected and now want to embarrass him, because his only interest is what benefits himself the most.

[Terminator]

The problem here is that you two are looking at this from a pro-Trump perspective while completely disregarding Putin's strategic interests. Putin never liked Trump, couldn't give a shit about him as a person, and certainly never respected him as an intellectual. Nevertheless, he helped him get elected by hacking the DNC and leaking information to Hillary's detriment. If you are playing a game of chess on the world stage, would you rather play an equal, or a mental inferior? You need to take a holistic look at this and understand that Putin's intention was never to be friends with America -- his intention is to surpass America as the world's pre-eminent superpower.

So were Trump and Putin colluding and working together? Or is this just 4D chess by Putin on his own? The media thinks it's possibly impeachable behavior and perhaps even treason. What you are saying is that something far less despicable happened.

Second, Putin played Hillary like a fiddle the whole time she was SoS. Trump is way more of a Wild Card from his perspective. I'm not convinced that a pro-military Wild Card is better than the person you just got done outmaneuvering.

Third, I think you are right about the whole Putin meddling because chaos in the US political system is good for him theory. I agree with that. But I don't think Putin thought Trump had a chance in hell of winning. No one did. He wanted chaos by discrediting Hillary as much as he could before she even took office. Then whenever she accused him of rigging his own elections he could point to her and say "please, you were getting the debate questions beforehand." When Trump won, and Putin really didn't have much affect it was Hillary's refusal to visit the rust belt, Putin was probably as surprised as anyone.

TL;DR 1- That's not all that bad from Trump's perspective unless you think collusion is involved. Do you? 2- I'm not sure Putin thinks Hillary is better for him than Trump anyway. 3- Putin did invite chaos but to hurt Hillary before she became President.

[Dr. Dinger]

So were Trump and Putin colluding and working together?

In my completed unsubstantiated opinion, here's what probably happened:

A Russian diplomat reaches out to the Trump campaign (not Trump directly) and contact is made. Conversations are had whereby the Russians imply that they'd like to help Trump get elected by hacking Hillary et al (in fact, Trump even encouraged the Russians to hack Hillary on national tv LOL) and exposing any dirt they can find. The Trump campaign says yes please, be our guest -- keep in mind that at this point, the Trump campaign is badly on the ropes and getting destroyed in every poll, they'll take any help they can get out of sheer desperation. Further conversations probably took place discussing how their relationship could evolve in the event Trump was elected, mutual backscratching, etc.

Do I think Trump and Putin ever sat in a room or had a phone call and mapped this out? Fuck no, nobody is that stupid. But do I think Trump knew that the Russians were willing to hack Hillary to his benefit? Absolutely. And it wouldn't surprise me at all if the Russians have evidence of these communications, which now function as a sword of Damocles to hold over Trump's head.

What part of that is far-fetched to you?

[connorp]

Ok, so you do think there was collusion of sorts. I was under the impression you just thought it was Putin acting on his own without involvement from anyone in Trump campaign.

I'll just go back to what I said before, that I'm glad you see this story dying down hard and fast in the media as you can only talk smoking gun so long before it gets silly when it's not found

[Dick_Pole]

Not at all. You seem to think that Russian collusion to get Trump elected and Russian brinksmanship now are mutually exclusive; this is another false assumption. Putin absolutely helped get Trump elected, but it has nothing to do with liking him or wanting to work with him. Putin's goal is to weaken America as a superpower by any means at his disposal, including by causing political chaos and helping a retard get elected. Now that Trump is in charge, it's in Putin's strategic interest to make Trump out as the idiot he is, because that is what weakens America the most and thereby draws America out of Russia's circle of influence by embroiling the country with its own internal conflict. It wouldn't surprise me at all if Putin orders leaks of Trump campaign contact with Russian diplomats prior to election now, the very best case scenario for Putin is to cause tremendous political instability in America, and he seems to hold the cards necessary to accomplish that.

Man, I can't wait for Putin to take over as unofficial world leader so we can have a real man the head of a real superpower and no more of this trans-loving, gay-loving, Muslim-loving, anti-science, childhood diabetes-afflicted, 420-loving, entitled fat slob lazy SJW Twitter can't-hit-your-kids society running everything. Bare-chested men riding on horses is how I like my leaders.

What exactly has Putin done that is so bad, other than the fact that his goals are in conflict to the West? Oh no, he might want to annex part of the Ukraine and the Baltic States in a region where borders have been unstable for centuries. That is just so0o0o0o0o much more worse than the decades of passive-aggressive crony capitalism the United States has inflicted on the Middle East, Central America and pretty much everywhere else in the world. On no, his KGB career and rise to the top happened on the blood of his adversaries. That is just so0o0o0o0o much more worse than the politicians here who sell our societies off to every lobbyist group with money imaginable.