• CIN 5
    PIT 4
    Final
    12:35 PM ET
  • TOR 1
    LAA 8
    Final
    12:37 PM ET
  • CWS 3
    BAL 9
    Final
    2:10 PM ET
  • OAK 4
    SEA 3
    Final
    3:35 PM ET
  • CLE 2
    HOU 8
    Final
    6:10 PM ET
  • TB 6
    BOS 3
    Final
    7:10 PM ET
  • TEX 1
    KC 8
    In Progress
    Bottom 9th
  • MIL 0
    NYM 5
    In Progress
    Bottom 8th
Page 1019 of 1106 FirstFirst ... 1951991996910091017101810191020102110291069 ... LastLast
Results 16,289 to 16,304 of 17687

Thread: Politics Thread

  1. #16289
    DONOR Spanky99's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    44,750
    Thanks
    45,877
    Thanked 8,822 Times in 6,772 Posts


    My shit... Z's

  2. #16290
    MVP Jimcanuck's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    9,117
    Thanks
    417
    Thanked 1,108 Times in 840 Posts
    lol

    the only thing i am raising is the perception of fairness of the trial result, given the makeup of the jury. the trial result may or may not have been the correct one.

    the UK and the US have laws against discrimination in jury selection, Canada does not. This is likely to soon change.
    Last edited by Jimcanuck; 02-14-2018 at 07:43 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boxcar View Post
    I think the Trump presidency has been a smashing success so far, tbh.

  3. #16291
    Blue Chip Prospect Rusty_Savage's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    886
    Thanks
    357
    Thanked 197 Times in 142 Posts
    Jim, do you know that 750 people were contacted for jury duty (including indigenous people) and very few of those original 750 showed up?

    How much of an idiot is Trudeau though. He has probably nullified any chance of an appeal with his stupid comments. I wish both him and Trump could be exiled to a deserted island never to be heard from again.

  4. The Following User Says Thank You to Rusty_Savage For This Useful Post:

    Spanky99 (02-14-2018)

  5. #16292
    MVP Jimcanuck's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    9,117
    Thanks
    417
    Thanked 1,108 Times in 840 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty_Savage View Post
    Jim, do you know that 750 people were contacted for jury duty (including indigenous people) and very few of those original 750 showed up?

    How much of an idiot is Trudeau though. He has probably nullified any chance of an appeal with his stupid comments. I wish both him and Trump could be exiled to a deserted island never to be heard from again.
    i'm aware that 200 of the 700 called for jury duty showed. of those 200, 85-100 were aboriginal. of these, a number were excused due to being related to Coushie family. some of the remaining were clearly biased (and similarly, some of the whites were clearly biased) and excused on that basis. the jury pool reduced to 45 candidates, 5 of the candidates were aboriginal, and the defense dismissed these 5 using pre-emptory challenges. the prosecution and the defence have 20, 12, or 4 pre-emptory challenges, depending on the charge. no reason is required to invoke pre-emptory challenge.

    the question is what can be changed to increase the likelihood of a representative jury? an anti discrimination in jury selection law, similar to what US and UK have, is an obvious one in this case, with such a law the justice would have an issue with the pre-emptory challenges used in the above manner.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boxcar View Post
    I think the Trump presidency has been a smashing success so far, tbh.

  6. #16293
    Mod | DONOR BTS's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    26,840
    Thanks
    3,984
    Thanked 13,827 Times in 8,196 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by L54 View Post
    What a disgrace to journalism that was. Fake News at it's finest.



    No mention of how drunk they were, the farm they "visited" before arriving at Stanley's, or the loaded .22 they had sitting in the front seat. But, facts don't matter.



    Funny how you can manipulate a story, without actually telling a lie. I guess that constitutes "journalism" today.

    Yes Stanley fired shots. In the air. Gerald Stanley did not shoot at the van. Gerald Stanley could not recall if he had two rounds of three in the chamber. The third shot fired while Stanley was attempting to shut off the van, and the defence claims was the result of hang fire- a delay between pulling the trigger and firing, and there is evidence to support that claim. This is the freak accident they decided to put in quotations as if this was an outlandish claim with no evidence behind it.



    I'm awaiting Jim's response to refute this point.



    Ah there it is, the mention of hang fire. Buried at the bottom of the article.



    No, but there was evidence from the ammunition that made the case for hang fire. Clear failure to report the facts in an attempt to mislead their audience.

    No, Saskatchewan is not inherently racist as the media wants everyone to believe. A bunch of teens made poor choices, and one sadly ended up paying the ultimate price for all of them.

    I read two articles briefly last night, the first two that showed up in google, and I had no idea the kids had a loaded gun. And over the past couple days, despite this public outrage, I didn’t even know until last night that the kid was shot while showing up drunk with four friends to commit a crime on a private residence. Somehow that fact isn’t considered relevant.
    jays4life19 ban counter: 3

  7. #16294
    MVP Jimcanuck's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    9,117
    Thanks
    417
    Thanked 1,108 Times in 840 Posts
    http://www.uscourts.gov/educational-...son-v-kentucky

    Interesting that Justice Marshall felt that preemptory challenges should be eliminated entirely.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boxcar View Post
    I think the Trump presidency has been a smashing success so far, tbh.

  8. #16295
    DONOR Spanky99's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    44,750
    Thanks
    45,877
    Thanked 8,822 Times in 6,772 Posts
    Murdered in cold blood... who fucking cares, right?

  9. #16296
    MVP Jimcanuck's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    9,117
    Thanks
    417
    Thanked 1,108 Times in 840 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by John_Havok View Post
    Maybe people need to stop looking at skin colour as being a factor of being someone's peer.
    Exactly what I am saying. The defence using preemptory challenge to dismiss the native jury candidates is something that needs to be reviewed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boxcar View Post
    I think the Trump presidency has been a smashing success so far, tbh.

  10. #16297
    DONOR
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Lethbridge AB
    Posts
    8,121
    Thanks
    146
    Thanked 2,526 Times in 1,487 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Jimcanuck View Post
    Exactly what I am saying. The defence using preemptory challenge to dismiss the native jury candidates is something that needs to be reviewed.
    They do the exact same thing in the US and UK, despite what it says in the article. Both the prosecution and defence have challenges the can use and you damn sure know when it's a racially involved case, both sides strike whatever jurors they want.

    My question is the flip side, would the prosecution have struck any of the potential native jurors if the defuse didn't?Fuck no. Why? Because they're native.

    You can't cry foul over something they would have done themselves.
    ****FREE SPANKY****

  11. #16298
    MVP Jimcanuck's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    9,117
    Thanks
    417
    Thanked 1,108 Times in 840 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by John_Havok View Post
    They do the exact same thing in the US and UK, despite what it says in the article. Both the prosecution and defence have challenges the can use and you damn sure know when it's a racially involved case, both sides strike whatever jurors they want.

    My question is the flip side, would the prosecution have struck any of the potential native jurors if the defuse didn't?Fuck no. Why? Because they're native.

    You can't cry foul over something they would have done themselves.
    I'm not crying foul. I don't care one way or the other about the outcome of the Boushie case. What I care about it is that the administration of justice in Canada, and the outcome of the Boushie case, is seen to be fair. Jury selection on the basis of race or whether one is native or not is wrong. How the jury selection process can be changed to stop or reduce that practice is in everyone's interest.

    There is an argument to be made to eliminate preemptory challenges. It is interesting that the original basis of preemptory challenges was to increase the perception of a jury free of bias. Preemptory challenge dates back to 1166 when England was almost solely white. It's use in a multi ethnic country like canada, to effectively exclude members of entire communities from jury consideration, needs to be looked at. It certainly does not enhance the perception of a jury free of bias.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boxcar View Post
    I think the Trump presidency has been a smashing success so far, tbh.

  12. #16299
    DONOR
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Lethbridge AB
    Posts
    8,121
    Thanks
    146
    Thanked 2,526 Times in 1,487 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Jimcanuck View Post
    I'm not crying foul. I don't care one way or the other about the outcome of the Boushie case. What I care about it is that the administration of justice in Canada, and the outcome of the Boushie case, is seen to be fair. Jury selection on the basis of race or whether one is native or not is wrong. How the jury selection process can be changed to stop or reduce that practice is in everyone's interest.

    There is an argument to be made to eliminate preemptory challenges. It is interesting that the original basis of preemptory challenges was to increase the perception of a jury free of bias. Preemptory challenge dates back to 1166 when England was almost solely white. It's use in a multi ethnic country like canada, to effectively exclude members of entire communities from jury consideration, needs to be looked at. It certainly does not enhance the perception of a jury free of bias.
    I can agree that the challenge system can be reviewed, like anything in our legal system can be reviewed if it repeatedly fails to do what it's intended to do.

    i don't see that's the case here. Preemptive challenges aren't just handed out to block natives from serving on cases with native on white crimes...while it's certainly always going to be spun that way. The challenges are meant to excuse jurors who are judged, by either the prosecution or defense, to be inacapable of remaining unbiased, or have already have a predetermined verdict in mind. There are of course other factors, but those are the biggest ones.

    We can't just pick jury pools out of a hat, exclude family members and take the first 12 names that show up. That would inherently be riddled with any number of problems.

    The real problem here is not the challenge system, but that people are still so hung up on skin colour as being the only reason anything happens to anyone that a certain group doesn't agree with.

    Let me tell th story of those case without using skin colour.

    A group of drunk teenage humans with a loaded gun show up at an elderly human' farm, who then have an altercation with that elderly human's family. The elderly human uses a firearm to try and get the group of drunk humans to leave and results in one of the drunk humans getting shot and dying.

    Does that sound like murder to you?
    ****FREE SPANKY****

  13. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to John_Havok For This Useful Post:

    BTS (02-14-2018),Spanky99 (02-14-2018)

  14. #16300
    Mod | DONOR BTS's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    26,840
    Thanks
    3,984
    Thanked 13,827 Times in 8,196 Posts
    I think we should just make it illegal to have jurors who aren’t Eastern Asian. They’re smarter than everyone else, and don’t really have emotions, so they’d be very objective.
    jays4life19 ban counter: 3

  15. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to BTS For This Useful Post:

    Boxcar (02-14-2018),SirBJay (02-14-2018),z3r0s (02-14-2018)

  16. #16301
    All Star L54's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    'Merica
    Posts
    5,028
    Thanks
    732
    Thanked 1,734 Times in 1,094 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by BTS View Post
    I read two articles briefly last night, the first two that showed up in google, and I had no idea the kids had a loaded gun. And over the past couple days, despite this public outrage, I didn’t even know until last night that the kid was shot while showing up drunk with four friends to commit a crime on a private residence. Somehow that fact isn’t considered relevant.
    Sorry BTS, I should've been more clear. My response wasn't directed at you, I was just using the article you posted and giving the other side of the story. Basically so that people like Jim can't run away with a bunch of false narratives after reading it.

  17. #16302
    Orioles Hangout Admin Boxcar's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    24,194
    Thanks
    2,375
    Thanked 8,806 Times in 5,438 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by L54 View Post
    What a disgrace to journalism that was. Fake News at it's finest.



    No mention of how drunk they were, the farm they "visited" before arriving at Stanley's, or the loaded .22 they had sitting in the front seat. But, facts don't matter.



    Funny how you can manipulate a story, without actually telling a lie. I guess that constitutes "journalism" today.

    Yes Stanley fired shots. In the air. Gerald Stanley did not shoot at the van. Gerald Stanley could not recall if he had two rounds of three in the chamber. The third shot fired while Stanley was attempting to shut off the van, and the defence claims was the result of hang fire- a delay between pulling the trigger and firing, and there is evidence to support that claim. This is the freak accident they decided to put in quotations as if this was an outlandish claim with no evidence behind it.



    I'm awaiting Jim's response to refute this point.



    Ah there it is, the mention of hang fire. Buried at the bottom of the article.



    No, but there was evidence from the ammunition that made the case for hang fire. Clear failure to report the facts in an attempt to mislead their audience.

    No, Saskatchewan is not inherently racist as the media wants everyone to believe. A bunch of teens made poor choices, and one sadly ended up paying the ultimate price for all of them.
    Thank you. I wasn't familiar with the case and I know that the Guardian is SJW trash these days. Can't really trust them to accurately report anything.

    It's amazing how one sided these publications can be while still thinking of themselves as journalists. They are activists.

    My biggest gripe with the article was actually reported accurately:

    Trudeau has expressed dismay at the verdict. “I’m not going to comment on the process that led us to this point today, but I am going to say we have come to this point as a country far too many times,” he said on Friday.
    Can we just fire this fucking moron into the sun already? It's like he applies no thought to anything. "white guy kills native guy, must be racist! I need no additional facts to throw this citizen under the bus." A citizen, by the way, who provides food for this country we live in, a thankless job in itself. Then, some native bum driving around drunk goes on his property with a loaded weapon (I'd guess with the intention to burgle) and he's the victim here.

    I wonder if he had a good cry afterwards.
    Quote Originally Posted by Laika View Post
    Can't wait to meet the new Matt Olson(s)!

  18. #16303
    All Star z3r0s's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    5,810
    Thanks
    1,003
    Thanked 1,529 Times in 1,082 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by BTS View Post
    I read two articles briefly last night, the first two that showed up in google, and I had no idea the kids had a loaded gun. And over the past couple days, despite this public outrage, I didn’t even know until last night that the kid was shot while showing up drunk with four friends to commit a crime on a private residence. Somehow that fact isn’t considered relevant.
    This is just a great summary of how I feel about this case. I haven't been actively searching info about it, but the more I learn, the more I see details being left out.
    Public opinion is always judged on about half the information, but some of the facts not being talked about are mind blowing.

    I have a hard time getting outraged at something when its backers are being super disingenuous.
    Last edited by z3r0s; 02-14-2018 at 10:55 AM.

  19. #16304
    Orioles Hangout Admin Boxcar's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    24,194
    Thanks
    2,375
    Thanked 8,806 Times in 5,438 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by BTS View Post
    I read two articles briefly last night, the first two that showed up in google, and I had no idea the kids had a loaded gun. And over the past couple days, despite this public outrage, I didn’t even know until last night that the kid was shot while showing up drunk with four friends to commit a crime on a private residence. Somehow that fact isn’t considered relevant.
    But people who complain about mainstream news are just conspiracy theorists, apparently. There are so few outlets that actually accurately report news anymore. Everything is so charged with social justice.

    I feel bad for this farmer. The twitter mobs will be after him.
    Quote Originally Posted by Laika View Post
    Can't wait to meet the new Matt Olson(s)!



Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •