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Thread: Offseason Roster Thread 2016-17

  1. #3953
    Big Leaguer baubau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeM View Post
    Actually I think Alex was the king of trading away the guys with no trade value.
    Could you provide me a few examples? I am just looking over his trade history and see guys with a lot of value being moved. He certainly had his "amazing" trades like Donaldson and Travis but overall...

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    All Star z3r0s's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brownie19 View Post
    Would you say it's time for Jays fans to crack each other's heads open and feast on the goo inside?
    yes i would kent

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    All Star Terminator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stangstag View Post
    Because he's a great hitter? Its not very hard to understand.
    Get real. He ranked 80th in baseball in wRC+. He's not a "great" hitter. He also doesn't play a position (which both limits his value and the number of teams that could even possibly have interest) and he's old. He also prevented us from resigning a superior player in Edwin.

    It's not a massive overpay and hindsight is 20/20 but it's clear after seeing these latest prices come in that Morales was give too much money.

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    It's not terribly hard to understand the Morales situation.

    - We offered Encarnacion $80 million over 4 years with a 5th year option that he turned down thinking he could get more

    - Our office panicked, and thinking they didn't want to get left behind signed one of the best available free agent replacements for Encarnacion in Morales. Morales was also one of the very first free agent pickups, which is why we probably had to overpay by an extra year to get him so that he didn't test the market.

    - Encarnacion market absolutely crashed which no one was really expecting, which allowed teams like the A's and Indians to bid on him in the first place.

    There's blame to be put on both sides, but both sides also had some logical thinking. We could've waited out Encarnacion and probably ended up getting him for the initial deal we put out, but the risk was the if some other team outrageously bid on him, we could've lost out on both Morales and Encarnacion.

    Encarnacion should've taken the deal, but he was thinking he could've gotten more. I don't blame him. I don't think anyone quite expected his market to crash as much as it did. Cespedes deal screwed him over big time.

  7. #3957
    All Star Terminator's Avatar
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    I'm not trying to rehash it all and I understand that their are mitigating factors but 3 years and 33 million for Morales in a vacuum doesn't seem like a good deal to me right now. Just wait until his age 36 season when he's locked in to our DH spot.

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    $11 million AAV is fine. I'd say it's even good for a guy like Morales. I can see the issue with 3 years, but like I said, we likely had to go a little over to get Morales since we got him so early into the market. I'm fine with it. If Morales has a year like 2015 and we're clearly out of contention, I bet you we could flip him in the offseason for something relatively valuable. Even better if he can prove he can play 1st.

  10. #3959
    Moderator Governator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terminator View Post
    I'm not trying to rehash it all and I understand that their are mitigating factors but 3 years and 33 million for Morales in a vacuum doesn't seem like a good deal to me right now. Just wait until his age 36 season when he's locked in to our DH spot.
    Doesn't mean he has to be with us in year 3.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stangstag View Post
    The Governator is a man's man.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Governator View Post
    Doesn't mean he has to be with us in year 3.
    Yeah that's a good point. Doesn't mean the Vernon Wells deal was a good signing even though we didn't have to bear the brunt of it though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by baubau View Post
    Could you provide me a few examples? I am just looking over his trade history and see guys with a lot of value being moved. He certainly had his "amazing" trades like Donaldson and Travis but overall...
    Vernon Wells
    Jose Reyes

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    Quote Originally Posted by Terminator View Post
    Yeah that's a good point. Doesn't mean the Vernon Wells deal was a good signing even though we didn't have to bear the brunt of it though.
    Paying Encarnacion $20MM+ in his 4th year when he's 38 could also have hurt us much more than paying Morales $11MM when he's 36.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stangstag View Post
    The Governator is a man's man.

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    Quote Originally Posted by baubau View Post
    Could you provide me a few examples? I am just looking over his trade history and see guys with a lot of value being moved. He certainly had his "amazing" trades like Donaldson and Travis but overall...
    Wells, Reyes, Gose. Then there was Lind for Estrada. Lind hit well but was DH only and shit in the clubhouse. He got an all-star year out of Delabar and gave up Thames.

    Pretty sure Alex Gonzalez was worthless his entire career outside of like half a season and then AA turned him into JOONEL.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Governator View Post
    Paying Encarnacion $20MM+ in his 4th year when he's 38 could also have hurt us much more than paying Morales $11MM when he's 36.
    Yeah for sure. I like Encarnacion at 3 for 65 though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by baubau View Post
    Could you provide me a few examples? I am just looking over his trade history and see guys with a lot of value being moved. He certainly had his "amazing" trades like Donaldson and Travis but overall...
    Vernon Wells was one of his best trades.

    AA gets a lot of shit and a lot of it is deserved. I didn't like his process like most others here.

    But I didn't mind his aggressiveness. Sometimes it would get him in trouble (Synder) but other times it would be a boon (Donaldson). Overall he wasn't a horrible GM. Won us the division and set us up for contention for the following two years after he left. Long term I'm not sure how he would have played out though.

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  19. #3966
    Moderator KingKat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terminator View Post
    Vernon Wells was one of his best trades.

    AA gets a lot of shit and a lot of it is deserved. I didn't like his process like most others here.

    But I didn't mind his aggressiveness. Sometimes it would get him in trouble (Synder) but other times it would be a boon (Donaldson). Overall he wasn't a horrible GM. Won us the division and set us up for contention for the following two years after he left. Long term I'm not sure how he would have played out though.
    He was a decent GM cut from an antiquated cloth.

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  21. #3967
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    AA wanted the same things as Shatkins but just went about it in the exact opposite manner. He basically was betting on himself in every trade he made. In order to extend our window he'd have to keep hitting on Gose for Travis trades and keep drafting or signing Vlad Jr's and that was always an insanely risky plan.

    But I'm not really against trading the Nestor Molinas and Miguel Castros of the world after you pump their value for a couple months.

  22. #3968
    All Star Terminator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeM View Post
    AA wanted the same things as Shatkins but just went about it in the exact opposite manner. He basically was betting on himself in every trade he made. In order to extend our window he'd have to keep hitting on Gose for Travis trades and keep drafting or signing Vlad Jr's and that was always an insanely risky plan.

    But I'm not really against trading the Nestor Molinas and Miguel Castros of the world after you pump their value for a couple months.
    He had one huge fuckup but he also had some great deals. The Vernon Wells trade was probably a net 80+ million in surplus value.

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