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Thread: Offseason Roster Thread 2016-17

  1. #3857
    Big Leaguer SirBJay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sorrow View Post
    This has been the worst off season in recent memory for me. I don't care what moves have been made or not made, I'm happy we avoided EE and I'd like to say good bye to JB if we get a pick as well. It's frustrating because so many fans want instant gratification by big name spending when Toronto is in a poor position to do so.

    What's your depth for an injury to Martin, or Tulo, or JD? It doesn't exist. We don't have starting pitching depth or 'pen depth of arms that aren't question marks because all the depth we did have was traded away between the Marlins, Dickey, Price and Tulo trades. Regardless of spending the money on a piece like Fowler or something else this team was an injury or two away from not contending regardless. It's not normal you only use 5-6 starting pitchers or don't lose strong position players for short term injuries.

    A retool, if not a rebuild, is coming and people really do need to realize that.
    IMO this team's depth has been the best it's been in recent years. You talk about no depth behind guys if you lose your cornerstone pieces, but any team would be pretty screwed if they lost their best player, or starting shortstop or catcher. I agree the Jays obviously need a backup catcher, but I'm sure the FO is aware of this as well. but McGuire or Jimenez are potential back-up options if Martin goes down. The rotation depth is pretty good, Bolsinger could probably be at least an average starter, Oberholtzer could make a serviceable swingman, and Biagini can start as well. The difference here is, the Jays have serviceable depth underneath the starting 5 that can do at least an average job instead of throwing shit at the wall hoping something wouls stick as they've done in years' past.

    The bottom line here is that injuries to your best players will screw almost any team over and the Jays are no exception, but their depth this year is vastly better than it's been than it was under AA. Plus I agree about the retooling, the Jays' core wasn't built to be sustainable, and most rational fans appreciate that, but unfortunately, most fans are not rational.
    Quote Originally Posted by gruber92 View Post
    Oh fuck off. Goins is a role player you dumb fuck.

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    All Star Brownie19's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sorrow View Post
    We don't even have the depth to replace any of them for an extended period of time, which was how I broke the statement down. Outside of Barney and potentially Burns I don't know if we have an actual replacement level piece to play between SS, 2B, 3B, C.
    Well Barney was well above replacement level last year and he could cover 3rd, SS or 2nd for an extended period if need be. He was like 1.5 WAR in 300 PA's or something...The Jays also have time to sign a replacement level backup catcher (if they choose not to go with AJ Jimenez as the backup).

    If Tulo and JD go down at the same time for an extended period - we're fucked....as would any team in baseball.

  3. #3859
    Moderator Governator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sorrow View Post
    We don't even have the depth to replace any of them for an extended period of time, which was how I broke the statement down. Outside of Barney and potentially Burns I don't know if we have an actual replacement level piece to play between SS, 2B, 3B, C.

    What about Lourdes Gurriel Jr? Also Pearce does have 2B experience. Jiminez is probably replacement level.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stangstag View Post
    The Governator is a man's man.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sorrow View Post
    This has been the worst off season in recent memory for me. I don't care what moves have been made or not made, I'm happy we avoided EE and I'd like to say good bye to JB if we get a pick as well. It's frustrating because so many fans want instant gratification by big name spending when Toronto is in a poor position to do so.

    What's your depth for an injury to Martin, or Tulo, or JD? It doesn't exist. We don't have starting pitching depth or 'pen depth of arms that aren't question marks because all the depth we did have was traded away between the Marlins, Dickey, Price and Tulo trades. Regardless of spending the money on a piece like Fowler or something else this team was an injury or two away from not contending regardless. It's not normal you only use 5-6 starting pitchers or don't lose strong position players for short term injuries.

    A retool, if not a rebuild, is coming and people really do need to realize that.
    After 2015 and 2016, there's really no way the Jays can take a step back (at least on purpose) so trying to put a competitive team on the field while building up the farm system is the only alternative. AA created a one and a half year window. Thankfully Shaps took over when he did because he should be able to salvage this without watching the team turn into Ruben Amaro's Phillies like it would have if AA was still here trading prospects for Joey Votto while re-signing Edwin and Jose.

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    SirBJay (01-06-2017)

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    Hall of Famer burlingtonbandit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Dinger View Post
    We are in no position to trade a SP. I think some of you are forgetting how insanely lucky we got with SP health last year. It's very atypical, and you can probably expect to lose at least one of our SP to some serious injury time this season. God forbid it's Stro or Sanchez. We need to address OF, but trading a SP is not an option.
    I disagree. If you can trade a SP for a OF who is better I'd do it in a second. There's still risk that the SP you trade is one of the guys that would get hurt. I'd much rather have a Gavin Floyd/Mike Bolsinger make 5-10 starts over the course of the season than have the current 5 SP + 2 of Upton/Carrera/Smoak getting everyday ABs.

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    TheGrandslamMan (01-12-2017)

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    Quote Originally Posted by BTS View Post
    Because it's incredibly rare for a team to go through an entire season without losing one of their top-5 starters to a long DL stint...
    It depends what he meant by "serious injury"... so maybe someone should clarify that first. No reason to flat out expect someone to go down for the whole season, for example.

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    Big Leaguer SirBJay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BTS View Post
    Yeah, I think the average is about 10 exactly.
    Yeah, it's 10 exactly, with 32 starts not belonging to the original starting 5.

    http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/so-ho...eam-need-then/
    Quote Originally Posted by gruber92 View Post
    Oh fuck off. Goins is a role player you dumb fuck.

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    Blue Chip Prospect Sorrow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Governator View Post
    What about Lourdes Gurriel Jr? Also Pearce does have 2B experience. Jiminez is probably replacement level.
    Gurriel (Gourriel sp?) is likely not MLB ready, he's got some major question marks in regards to the bat. Do you see Pearce able to man lets say 2B if Travis does down for two months, as a regular for that period or are we back to using Barney and Goins in that capacity?

    We have some options but nothing that you'd want on the field for an extended period of time.

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    DONOR Spanky99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by reedjohnsonfan View Post
    It depends what he meant by "serious injury"... so maybe someone should clarify that first. No reason to flat out expect someone to go down for the whole season, for example.
    So we should expect Dinger to be our forum Nostradamus on when a pitcher tears a tendon/muscle? It happens throughout the MLB every single season, don't be so obtuse.

  13. #3867
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    Jays were quite lucky with pitching health in both 2015 and 2016 (even with Stro 2015 absence). Without EE and JB both gone, if a normal year happens and some pitchers go down to injury the Jays are likely battling for the ALE cellar. That's just the 2017 reality.

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    Big Leaguer reedjohnsonfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spanky99 View Post
    So we should expect Dinger to be our forum Nostradamus on when a pitcher tears a tendon/muscle? It happens throughout the MLB every single season, don't be so obtuse.
    Ultimately I was wondering if he/someone else had some info on which pitchers might be more injury prone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sorrow View Post
    We don't even have the depth to replace any of them for an extended period of time, which was how I broke the statement down. Outside of Barney and potentially Burns I don't know if we have an actual replacement level piece to play between SS, 2B, 3B, C.
    Sign Valbuena and that solves everything but backup C.

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    What are we spending this budget on at this point? Valbuena is an obvious answer. Maybe they had a bad break up in Cleveland or something.

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    All Star Terminator's Avatar
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    I know Valbuena is versatile but where does he play? This team needs OF more than anything else.

  18. #3872
    Hall of Famer burlingtonbandit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeM View Post
    What are we spending this budget on at this point? Valbuena is an obvious answer. Maybe they had a bad break up in Cleveland or something.
    Not sure why he's obvious. He can play 3rd but with Donaldson its a waste. You aren't going to sign him to be a platoon 1st baseman especially when he isn't even projected to be an average hitter.

    Jays need 2 outfielders.

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