• NYY
    TOR
    Preview
    1:05 PM ET
  • DET
    KC
    Preview
    1:10 PM ET
  • STL
    CIN
    Preview
    2:15 PM ET
  • BAL
    CLE
    Preview
    4:05 PM ET
  • PHI
    PIT
    Preview
    4:05 PM ET
  • TB
    MIN
    Preview
    6:10 PM ET
  • CWS
    HOU
    Preview
    7:10 PM ET
  • MIL
    MIA
    Preview
    7:10 PM ET
  • ATL
    NYM
    Preview
    7:10 PM ET
  • TEX
    SEA
    Preview
    8:05 PM ET
  • COL
    CHC
    Preview
    8:10 PM ET
  • ARI
    SD
    Preview
    8:10 PM ET
  • OAK
    BOS
    Preview
    9:05 PM ET
  • LAA
    SF
    Preview
    9:07 PM ET
  • LAD
    WSH
    Preview
    9:10 PM ET
Page 249 of 308 FirstFirst ... 149199239247248249250251259299 ... LastLast
Results 3,969 to 3,984 of 4925

Thread: Offseason Roster Thread 2016-17

  1. #3969
    Super Moderator TheHurl's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    12,520
    Thanks
    978
    Thanked 6,137 Times in 3,504 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Terminator View Post
    He had one huge fuckup but he also had some great deals. The Vernon Wells trade was probably a net 80+ million in surplus value.
    He nets at a zero in his huge splashes. The Florida trade was something like a $120M net value deficit, Donaldson deal and Dickey deal probably wipe each other out.
    Quote Originally Posted by weams View Post
    You have to realize we have a real life celebrity who posts on our boards Roy firestone.

  2. The Following User Says Thank You to TheHurl For This Useful Post:

    Terminator (01-11-2017)

  3. #3970
    Blue Chip Prospect MikeM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    1,456
    Thanks
    146
    Thanked 646 Times in 352 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by TheHurl View Post
    He nets at a zero in his huge splashes. The Florida trade was something like a $120M net value deficit, Donaldson deal and Dickey deal probably wipe each other out.
    I think Buehrle alone gave us more than everything we traded to the Marlins. Except Desclafani who is now good.

    *Yunel had to go because he said a bad word.

  4. #3971
    Super Moderator TheHurl's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    12,520
    Thanks
    978
    Thanked 6,137 Times in 3,504 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by MikeM View Post
    I think Buehrle alone gave us more than everything we traded to the Marlins. Except Desclafani who is now good.

    *Yunel had to go because he said a bad word.
    Last time I did a calculation the package sent had netted more fWAR than the Jays got...and the Jays paid a lot more salary.

    Since the trade Yunel 7.2, Disco 5.2, Hech 1.7, Alvarez 4.2, Marisnick 2.4, Nicolino 0.6. Only Yunel ran out of team control since then. 20.9 fWAR is like $150M for not very much total salary. Only good thing is that likely only Disco will put up much surplus moving forward.
    Quote Originally Posted by weams View Post
    You have to realize we have a real life celebrity who posts on our boards Roy firestone.

  5. #3972
    Blue Chip Prospect MikeM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    1,456
    Thanks
    146
    Thanked 646 Times in 352 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by TheHurl View Post
    Last time I did a calculation the package sent had netted more fWAR than the Jays got...and the Jays paid a lot more salary.

    Since the trade Yunel 7.2, Disco 5.2, Hech 1.7, Alvarez 4.2, Marisnick 2.4, Nicolino 0.6. Only Yunel ran out of team control since then. 20.9 fWAR is like $150M for not very much total salary. Only good thing is that likely only Disco will put up much surplus moving forward.
    Ya I mean, if you average out Heck, Alvarez, Marisnick, Nicolino and Mathis over 4 years, you get like maybe 0.5-1 WAR per year for each guy which is easily replaced by anyone you have in AAA. They're basically just bodies.

    I don't think simply adding up the total WAR is really representative of the total picture. Yunel had to go though, everyone knew that and he had no value because of it.

  6. #3973
    Big Leaguer baubau's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    2,964
    Thanks
    1,614
    Thanked 1,012 Times in 591 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by TheHurl View Post
    He nets at a zero in his huge splashes. The Florida trade was something like a $120M net value deficit, Donaldson deal and Dickey deal probably wipe each other out.
    To add, Yan Gomes also provided 7.8 WAR + his pitch framing was elite in 2013/2014, probably ended up at 10+ WAR (my math could be terribly wrong). Even if you add Aviles' -1.5 WAR for CLE, they still come out on top over Esmil Rogers' solid 0.2 WAR for the Jays.

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeM View Post
    Ya I mean, if you average out Heck, Alvarez, Marisnick, Nicolino and Mathis over 4 years, you get like maybe 0.5-1 WAR per year for each guy which is easily replaced by anyone you have in AAA. They're basically just bodies.

    I don't think simply adding up the total WAR is really representative of the total picture. Yunel had to go though, everyone knew that and he had no value because of it.
    While the Marlin's also traded Desclafani, he is a solid no. 3 pitcher, already having 3.1 and 2 WAR seasons.

    I'd say AA lost a lot of players which had high value, more than he gained in his tenure. The rest of "we needed a push" / "he put us over the top" etc. I won't get into.

  7. #3974
    Moderator KingKat's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    17,425
    Thanks
    14,541
    Thanked 6,017 Times in 3,844 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by MikeM View Post
    Ya I mean, if you average out Heck, Alvarez, Marisnick, Nicolino and Mathis over 4 years, you get like maybe 0.5-1 WAR per year for each guy which is easily replaced by anyone you have in AAA. They're basically just bodies.
    Replacement level is 0.0 WAR

  8. #3975
    Super Moderator TheHurl's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    12,520
    Thanks
    978
    Thanked 6,137 Times in 3,504 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by MikeM View Post
    Ya I mean, if you average out Heck, Alvarez, Marisnick, Nicolino and Mathis over 4 years, you get like maybe 0.5-1 WAR per year for each guy which is easily replaced by anyone you have in AAA. They're basically just bodies.

    I don't think simply adding up the total WAR is really representative of the total picture. Yunel had to go though, everyone knew that and he had no value because of it.
    Surplus value is just adding WAR/$ calculations and subtracting payroll. Yunel did not have to go if the F.O. played the PR issues correctly. And 2 weeks after he was dealt to the Marlins because he had no value, he was flipped for a guy that has put up $22M in excess value. No one will ever be able to convince me that the Marlins trade was not a horrible poorly thought out trade.
    Quote Originally Posted by weams View Post
    You have to realize we have a real life celebrity who posts on our boards Roy firestone.

  9. #3976
    Moderator Governator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Barrie
    Posts
    11,098
    Thanks
    2,946
    Thanked 5,236 Times in 2,355 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by TheHurl View Post
    Surplus value is just adding WAR/$ calculations and subtracting payroll. Yunel did not have to go if the F.O. played the PR issues correctly. And 2 weeks after he was dealt to the Marlins because he had no value, he was flipped for a guy that has put up $22M in excess value. No one will ever be able to convince me that the Marlins trade was not a horrible poorly thought out trade.
    To be just a little more fair, it's easier to analyze this now years later, but at the time Josh Johnson could have been a difference maker for us. Boy was that a disappointment.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stangstag View Post
    The Governator is a man's man.

  10. #3977
    DONOR jays4life19's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    16,173
    Thanks
    3,757
    Thanked 4,534 Times in 3,034 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Governator View Post
    To be just a little more fair, it's easier to analyze this now years later, but at the time Josh Johnson could have been a difference maker for us. Boy was that a disappointment.
    He was only under contract for 1 year though and if he has a great/healthy season he would have gotten a huge contract.

  11. #3978
    Moderator Governator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Barrie
    Posts
    11,098
    Thanks
    2,946
    Thanked 5,236 Times in 2,355 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by jays4life19 View Post
    He was only under contract for 1 year though and if he has a great/healthy season he would have gotten a huge contract.
    Well of course, but considering that was a pretty hyped year, a lot of people, myself included hoped he'd help get us to the postseason and with AA running the show could have got an extension if he met expectations.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stangstag View Post
    The Governator is a man's man.

  12. #3979
    DONOR jays4life19's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    16,173
    Thanks
    3,757
    Thanked 4,534 Times in 3,034 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Governator View Post
    Well of course, but considering that was a pretty hyped year, a lot of people, myself included hoped he'd help get us to the postseason and with AA running the show could have got an extension if he met expectations.
    I think a major part of the miscalculation was even if he did we were not a good enough team and had like no depth. Thus why they made the Dickey trade.

  13. #3980
    Hall of Famer burlingtonbandit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    16,864
    Thanks
    719
    Thanked 2,139 Times in 1,535 Posts
    AA is a pretty good executive. If he wasn't the Dodgers wouldn't have hired him. He's got very good negotiating skills and in this day and age its kind of rare to see a GM do everything so that can be pretty valuable.

  14. #3981
    Blue Chip Prospect SAAviour's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    1,039
    Thanks
    471
    Thanked 258 Times in 158 Posts
    AA ended 22 years of baseball purgatory, for that we should all be thankful....no matter how he did it.

  15. #3982
    Super Moderator TheHurl's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    12,520
    Thanks
    978
    Thanked 6,137 Times in 3,504 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Governator View Post
    To be just a little more fair, it's easier to analyze this now years later, but at the time Josh Johnson could have been a difference maker for us. Boy was that a disappointment.
    He gave the Jays 4/10's of a win more than I predicted he would. Keep in mind with the Marlins players (and Dickey) projected at about 8 wins it still only brought the Jays up to an 83 or 84 win projection. Even if the best Josh Johnson showed up this was still probably not a team ready for a "difference maker".
    Quote Originally Posted by weams View Post
    You have to realize we have a real life celebrity who posts on our boards Roy firestone.

  16. The Following User Says Thank You to TheHurl For This Useful Post:

    KingKat (01-12-2017)

  17. #3983
    Orioles Hangout Admin Boxcar's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    23,799
    Thanks
    2,327
    Thanked 8,637 Times in 5,336 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by HERPDERP View Post
    is steamer even reliable when it comes to players with little track record in the majors? There's probably so much noise in his 2016 numbers
    No, Steamer is absolutely terrible for projecting prospects.
    Quote Originally Posted by Spanky99 View Post
    Frag are you alive?
    Quote Originally Posted by Spanky99 View Post
    I know King isn't... little prick.

  18. #3984
    Orioles Hangout Admin Boxcar's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    23,799
    Thanks
    2,327
    Thanked 8,637 Times in 5,336 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Orgfiller View Post
    "a bit"
    It's a bit for Abom. Shoulder injuries are NBD, dawg.
    Quote Originally Posted by Spanky99 View Post
    Frag are you alive?
    Quote Originally Posted by Spanky99 View Post
    I know King isn't... little prick.



  19. The Following User Says Thank You to Boxcar For This Useful Post:

    Spanky99 (01-12-2017)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •