A look at the brief history of Mark Shapiro's Blue Jays, till now and moving forward

[Laika]

I don't care what anyone says, the Swisher and Bourn signings have to be at least 1% traumatizing for them. Those 2 players were slam dunk signings. Completely logical and in the context of those CLE teams, they made a lot of sense. And both players absolutely turned to shit as soon as they signed those contracts.

Absolutely. Those were great signings that didn't work at all. Kind of like if Edwin absolutely stinks in Cleveland.

I really wanted Swisher back then.

[Terminator]

Yeah I liked both of those signings at the time.

Another FA signing that reminds me of those is Chone Figgins. I wanted him bad back in the day but as soon as Seattle signed him his numbers tanked.

[TheHurl]

Blue Bird Banter poll. I'm not sure what is more surprising the result or that BBB has 4000 hits

http://www.bluebirdbanter.com/2017/1...kins-are-doing

Do you approve of the job Mark Shipiro and Ross Atkins are doing?

15%
Approve
(610 votes)
27%
Neutral
(1093 votes)
59%
Disapprove
(2410 votes)
4113 votes total
More From Bluebird Banter

[KingKat]

Chone Figgins.

[Rusty_Savage]

Blue Bird Banter poll. I'm not sure what is more surprising the result or that BBB has 4000 hits

http://www.bluebirdbanter.com/2017/1...kins-are-doing

Do you approve of the job Mark Shipiro and Ross Atkins are doing?

15%
Approve
(610 votes)
27%
Neutral
(1093 votes)
59%
Disapprove
(2410 votes)
4113 votes total
More From Bluebird Banter

I was one of the 610

[reedjohnsonfan]

Blue Bird Banter poll. I'm not sure what is more surprising the result or that BBB has 4000 hits

http://www.bluebirdbanter.com/2017/1...kins-are-doing

Do you approve of the job Mark Shipiro and Ross Atkins are doing?

15%
Approve
(610 votes)
27%
Neutral
(1093 votes)
59%
Disapprove
(2410 votes)
4113 votes total
More From Bluebird Banter

What's so surprising about the results? More recent events are likely to influence these types of polls.

It's not a stretch to say the offseason has been poor, from a fan's point of view.

[Boxcar]

What's so surprising about the results? More recent events are likely to influence these types of polls.

It's not a stretch to say the offseason has been poor, from a fan's point of view.

That's true. Excellent signings like Steve Pearce won't be appreciated by the average dumb fan.

Which is exactly why GMs should never care what fans think.

[Rusty_Savage]

The problem with that argument is that Smoak himself is an overpayment and I don't mean in terms of his real or imagined production but simply in terms of what he'd fetch in the market. In the current market, he'd struggle to find employment much less get what he got. Of course, the market on his skill set has cratered since he signed but pretty much everyone thought it was an overpayment back then too just not as egregious as it's become. Which isn't to say that back then I thought overpaying for Smoak was a big deal. I really didn't and I'm not going to throw the team under the bus now for misjudging the market. Shit happens. I'm just saying that the argument that they never overpay isn't true. I think it's part of the franchise m.o. to make low stakes over-payments for security blankets. I think the Chavez trade was another example of this. They got fuck nothing out of Chavez except the security of knowing they had a guy who could make starts. After dealing Chavez, they arguably overpaid for Feldman for the exact same reason. These deals end up looking bad because you can't exactly put a WAR value on having guys that in an ideal world you don't use but I understand why they do them and why they make sense in the big picture.

I get what your saying but I think they probably over estimated the first base/DH market. When they made the 4/80 offer to EE I'm sure they didn't think that would be enough. I could be totally off base on that assumption t that's the feeling I get.

I know it's a sss but when they signed Smoak wasn't he getting on base at something around .400 or something g like that? Now he did take a nose dive after that but maybe that has something to do with it. Either way, the Smoak signing really goes against what this risk adverse FO stands for and I think it probably will stand to be an outlier.

The only two transactions that I really dislike with Shapiro/Atkins are the Smoak and Chavez ones and neither are anything close to being crippling.

[Rusty_Savage]

What's so surprising about the results? More recent events are likely to influence these types of polls.

It's not a stretch to say the offseason has been poor, from a fan's point of view.

Some would have said the same thing about last season as well.

They made a more then fair offer to EE and a fair offer to Fowler. Bautista is still there but other then that there weren't too many realistic options in FA and theres not much in the upper minors that anyone would want for an impact player.

This is the price the team will have to pay for AA's trades at the 2015 trade deadline.

[TwistedLogic]

That's true. Excellent signings like Steve Pearce won't be appreciated by the average dumb fan.

Which is exactly why GMs should never care what fans think.

(Apologies in advance if reading this gives anybody chlamydia):

"But Happ, Biagini, Upton, Grilli, Benoit, Liriano etc were not designed to be impact moves that pushed them over the top.
They were gambles that worked out. Did they really foresee Happ's season when they got him? What about Biagini the
rule-5 pick? What about Grilli the 40-year-old being their main set-up man? In other words, they got lucky last season.

Those were all cheap-skate moves with the intention of staying just relevant in the division. I did not see an ernest
effort to push the team over the top while they are in the window of contention." - Satan, 2017

[reedjohnsonfan]

Some would have said the same thing about last season as well.

They made a more then fair offer to EE and a fair offer to Fowler. Bautista is still there but other then that there weren't too many realistic options in FA and theres not much in the upper minors that anyone would want for an impact player.

This is the price the team will have to pay for AA's trades at the 2015 trade deadline.

Fair enough, you're entitled to your opinion. Their clearly poor offseason is a reason why I do not support the current FO. They've made some good moves sure, but completely blew it during the last few months. To each their own.

[Brownie19]

That's true. Excellent signings like Steve Pearce won't be appreciated by the average dumb fan.

Which is exactly why GMs should never care what fans think.

Is Pearce works out, the casuals will claim Shatkins got lucky.

[burlingtonbandit]

Some would have said the same thing about last season as well.

They made a more then fair offer to EE and a fair offer to Fowler. Bautista is still there but other then that there weren't too many realistic options in FA and theres not much in the upper minors that anyone would want for an impact player.

This is the price the team will have to pay for AA's trades at the 2015 trade deadline.

Without AA's trades this team has already traded Donaldson, Martin, Estrada, Osuna and is in the middle of a rebuild.

Tulo trade was a big win with Reyes being a $50 Million loss and Hoffman having a bad debut. Norris and Boyd haven't really done much either. I don't get why people make it sound like the 2015 trades were bad, they were clear wins.

[Rusty_Savage]

Without AA's trades this team has already traded Donaldson, Martin, Estrada, Osuna and is in the middle of a rebuild.

Tulo trade was a big win with Reyes being a $50 Million loss and Hoffman having a bad debut. Norris and Boyd haven't really done much either. I don't get why people make it sound like the 2015 trades were bad, they were clear wins.

Where did I say they were bad? Why does everything have to be black and white with some people. The trades robbed us of any depth, mainly pitchers. Instead of Boyd, Norris and Hoffman being our depth starters we have Floyd, Bolsinger and Biagini.

My main point was that that in a poor FA class we have no prospects to trade because the majority were used up in 2015.

[burlingtonbandit]

Where did I say they were bad? Why does everything have to be black and white with some people. The trades robbed us of any depth, mainly pitchers. Instead of Boyd, Norris and Hoffman being our depth starters we have Floyd, Bolsinger and Biagini.

My main point was that that in a poor FA class we have no prospects to trade because the majority were used up in 2015.

They have lots of prospects to trade.. Alford, Pompey, Reid Foley, Tellez, Gurriel etc.. The notion that the Jays can't trade for players because they don't have the prospects is false. Its just the Jays are unwilling to make the moves.

[TheHurl]

They have lots of prospects to trade.. Alford, Pompey, Reid Foley, Tellez, Gurriel etc.. The notion that the Jays can't trade for players because they don't have the prospects is false. Its just the Jays are unwilling to make the moves.

I'd love to know what Tellez's trade value is. I'd be shocked if someone gives more than a reliever for him, but I don't see him helping the team this year so might be worth it. Pompey interests me too...his projections are still okay, but he's certainly not shiny and new.