• PHI 0
    STL 0
    Pre-Game
    1:05 PM ET
  • MIN 0
    CWS 0
    Pre-Game
    1:10 PM ET
  • TEX
    TOR
    Preview
    2:05 PM ET
  • MIL
    PIT
    Preview
    2:10 PM ET
  • COL
    ARI
    Preview
    3:10 PM ET
  • OAK
    HOU
    Preview
    3:35 PM ET
  • BAL
    CLE
    Preview
    7:05 PM ET
  • NYY
    LAA
    Preview
    7:05 PM ET
  • MIA
    CHC
    Preview
    7:10 PM ET
  • ATL
    SF
    Preview
    7:35 PM ET
  • SEA
    DET
    Preview
    10:10 PM ET
  • LAD
    NYM
    Preview
    10:10 PM ET

View Poll Results: 50 or 81

Voters
85. You may not vote on this poll
  • 50

    34 40.00%
  • 81

    51 60.00%
Page 2 of 6 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast
Results 17 to 32 of 92

Thread: 50 or 81?

  1. #17
    Blue Chip Prospect SAAviour's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    1,016
    Thanks
    470
    Thanked 255 Times in 155 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Governator View Post
    If we won 50 games it means we are going to be terrible for yeeaaaars. It's hard to watch or care after a 15 game stretch, imagine many years of this.
    I disagree, I think winning 81sh games makes you terrible for years, and there is a 22 year stretch to prove it. Losing 50 this year accelerates the rebuild.
    Plus people are commenting that Rogers will spend less....I think Rogers needs to see what a shite team does to the bottom line after the $$$ they have been raking in the last two years. When they see that they will realize it's best to rebuild fast and don't be cheap going forward, a good team is much more valuable.

  2. #18
    Blue Chip Prospect
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Posts
    1,383
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 70 Times in 51 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by KingKat View Post
    Don't you mean 69 wins?
    lol good one!!

  3. #19
    Just Drafted
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Posts
    49
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by AdamGreenwood View Post
    This isn't like fantasy baseball. Having a terrible club and finishing dead last has repercussions.

    Fans stop going and watching on TV, resulting in less dollars, resulting in Rogers not wanting to spend on free agents or retain current players.
    The better draft pick doesn't make up that much difference.
    This is a very straightforward exercise. You calculate the value of a first overall pick over a 15th overall pick and compare it to the lost attendance, television, and other revenue of a .500 team over the worst team in baseball.

    Tanking to obtain an incremental increase in draft position for a team that just led the league in attendance and has the largest television market in baseball makes ludicrously bad business sense. We can build for the future without carpet bombing all the positive value the franchise has built up.

  4. #20
    All Star
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    4,247
    Thanks
    274
    Thanked 900 Times in 604 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by AdamGreenwood View Post
    Depends.

    If we could be a .500 club and still sell off a bunch of our assets for farm talent, then sign me up.
    This isn't like fantasy baseball. Having a terrible club and finishing dead last has repercussions.

    Fans stop going and watching on TV, resulting in less dollars, resulting in Rogers not wanting to spend on free agents or retain current players.
    The better draft pick doesn't make up that much difference.
    The Jays aren't tanking though. They are actually trying to win. They have an old veteran team.

    You can't prevent a bad season from happening in this case. If they were purposely tanking after making the ALCS last year then that's different. In this case, the Jays are bad in spite of trying to field a contender. If attendance, ratings, and revenue drop because of that, then what are you going to do?

    And yes, this is AA's fault. When you build for one year, that's all you're going to get. Shatkins tried to extend the window for as long as they could and it just wasn't meant to be. At least we can keep track of the minors now and know that Vlad, Bichette, etc, might actually play for the Jays if they pan out, rather than be traded for Joey Votto.

  5. The Following User Says Thank You to glory For This Useful Post:

    LetTheBallFly (04-21-2017)

  6. #21
    MVP LetTheBallFly's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    8,872
    Thanks
    5,977
    Thanked 560 Times in 485 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by keggy View Post
    This is a very straightforward exercise. You calculate the value of a first overall pick over a 15th overall pick and compare it to the lost attendance, television, and other revenue of a .500 team over the worst team in baseball.

    Tanking to obtain an incremental increase in draft position for a team that just led the league in attendance and has the largest television market in baseball makes ludicrously bad business sense. We can build for the future without carpet bombing all the positive value the franchise has built up.
    That's what you get when you limit the length of FA contracts, try to save money everywhere (just led in attendance...should be spending close to 200 MILLION...what are we this year?), your money saving signings don't play well, your team is the oldest in baseball, and are hit with key injuries early. "Tanking" is not really tanking....its just that we are the worst team in baseball period right now. As is...50 wins would be lucky to get to...don't think we are that low though. 60-65 wins seems realistic and would still probably be the 1st overall pick.
    See the ball and let it fly, Watch the ball soaring through the sky, Higher like a comet in the night air, Defying gravity is rare, Let the ball fly, Its homerun time!!!!!

  7. #22
    Gameday Master fatcowxlive's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Toronto!
    Posts
    18,024
    Thanks
    3,450
    Thanked 2,190 Times in 1,487 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Bobthe4th View Post
    That just isn't true.
    Lol and who do we have coming up that is a legit impact player who can give us a big boost next year? I'll wait

  8. #23
    MVP LetTheBallFly's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    8,872
    Thanks
    5,977
    Thanked 560 Times in 485 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by fatcowxlive View Post
    Lol and who do we have coming up that is a legit impact player who can give us a big boost next year? I'll wait
    Alford....might not be the whole year but he should make it up here next season the way he has put it together so far this year
    See the ball and let it fly, Watch the ball soaring through the sky, Higher like a comet in the night air, Defying gravity is rare, Let the ball fly, Its homerun time!!!!!

  9. #24
    Banned
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Posts
    7
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
    Quote Originally Posted by HERPDERP View Post
    I blame AA more than Shatkins but I still support what he did. We got two very competitive and interesting post season appearances. Remember where we came from
    He made arguably the worst trade in franchise history. Dickey was inconsequential to our two post season runs, so had he not made that trade and you insert Thor into our already killer rotation, then there's your World Series team.

  10. The Following User Says Thank You to Truthbombs For This Useful Post:

    LetTheBallFly (04-21-2017)

  11. #25
    Blue Chip Prospect Bobthe4th's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Leeds (England)
    Posts
    1,504
    Thanks
    156
    Thanked 334 Times in 221 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by fatcowxlive View Post
    Lol and who do we have coming up that is a legit impact player who can give us a big boost next year? I'll wait
    You said "we have no help in the minors that we could look too next season". Any of Gurriel, Urena, SRF, Alford, McGuire, Ramirez, Harris, Tellez, Greene, Pentecost can make it to the big leagues by next season or earlier.

    Obv some of these players will never make it at all, but it's very unlikely that none of them will.

    If by "legit impact player who can give us a big boost" you mean someone who could compete for rookie of the year, I'd put Alford and Gurriel as the most likely.

  12. The Following User Says Thank You to Bobthe4th For This Useful Post:

    LetTheBallFly (04-21-2017)

  13. #26
    Gameday Master fatcowxlive's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Toronto!
    Posts
    18,024
    Thanks
    3,450
    Thanked 2,190 Times in 1,487 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by LetTheBallFly View Post
    Alford....might not be the whole year but he should make it up here next season the way he has put it together so far this year
    BIG impact I said, I'm not doubting that we'll have people up, but I'm saying a legit player who can help the team out immediately. Alford is great, but he's in his first season above high-A

  14. #27
    DONOR BTS's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    22,396
    Thanks
    3,311
    Thanked 11,811 Times in 7,049 Posts
    I don't know that people are fully appreciating how bad a 50-112 team would be. We aren't doing any selling if we're a 50 win team. That means Bautista is finished, JD is hampered by injuries all year, Travis isn't actually good, multiple rotation arms have exploded etc... We'd have a trifecta of terrible things happening concurrently:
    - watching a team so bad that they have one of the worst records of all-time
    - watching the asset value of like half the roster crater
    - watching fan support dwindle and payroll likely decrease as the org. becomes a national laughingstock

    81 wins please
    Quote Originally Posted by Boxcar View Post
    Unfortunately, they really skimped out on the crickets on mine because they add a pretty flavourful crunch element on top of the coleslaw.

  15. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to BTS For This Useful Post:

    Bobthe4th (04-21-2017),Dick_Pole (04-21-2017),GD (04-21-2017),Governator (04-21-2017),JaysRap (04-21-2017),LetTheBallFly (04-21-2017)

  16. #28
    Gameday Master fatcowxlive's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Toronto!
    Posts
    18,024
    Thanks
    3,450
    Thanked 2,190 Times in 1,487 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Bobthe4th View Post
    You said "we have no help in the minors that we could look too next season". Any of Gurriel, Urena, SRF, Alford, McGuire, Ramirez, Harris, Tellez, Greene, Pentecost can make it to the big leagues by next season or earlier.

    Obv some of these players will never make it at all, but it's very unlikely that none of them will.

    If by "legit impact player who can give us a big boost" you mean someone who could compete for rookie of the year, I'd put Alford and Gurriel as the most likely.
    Huh? You think Gurriel is going to make the jump from high-A to the majors in one year? Man you guys are crazy lol

  17. #29
    Moderator Governator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Barrie
    Posts
    10,743
    Thanks
    2,842
    Thanked 5,015 Times in 2,259 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by SAAviour View Post
    I disagree, I think winning 81sh games makes you terrible for years, and there is a 22 year stretch to prove it. Losing 50 this year accelerates the rebuild.
    Plus people are commenting that Rogers will spend less....I think Rogers needs to see what a shite team does to the bottom line after the $$$ they have been raking in the last two years. When they see that they will realize it's best to rebuild fast and don't be cheap going forward, a good team is much more valuable.

    Again... yeeeaars. You're talking 50 wins man. That's hard to do by trying let alone climb out of and get to 90+ again. It's much harder to fully rebuild a baseball team than say hockey or basketball. There is so much that isn't guaranteed in the game and hitting the reset button doesn't win you anything nor does it guarantee you'll even see a drafted player crack your MLB roster in 5 years. You can't just tank, nab Austin Matthews and make the postseason 8 months later. I have no problem being sellers at the deadline, dumping veterans for multiple draft picks or minor league talent but if someone gave me the option as a baseball fan to see my team win 50 games or be a .500 team I'll take the .500 every time with hopes of retooling to be better.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stangstag View Post
    The Governator is a man's man.

  18. #30
    DONOR P2F's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Calgary
    Posts
    3,654
    Thanks
    2,309
    Thanked 1,099 Times in 742 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by fatcowxlive View Post
    Huh? You think Gurriel is going to make the jump from high-A to the majors in one year? Man you guys are crazy lol
    Absolutely. He will be fast-tracked barring major injury or a complete bed-shitting.

  19. The Following User Says Thank You to P2F For This Useful Post:

    LetTheBallFly (04-21-2017)

  20. #31
    Blue Chip Prospect Bobthe4th's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Leeds (England)
    Posts
    1,504
    Thanks
    156
    Thanked 334 Times in 221 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by fatcowxlive View Post
    Huh? You think Gurriel is going to make the jump from high-A to the majors in one year? Man you guys are crazy lol
    He has a chance to yes. He's 23 and was given a 7 year contract, he's not a freshman drafted out of college.

    A lot of people believed he could make it this year, but having a year out last year likely delays that. Obviously he has to succeed in the minors first, the same as any other prospect.

  21. #32
    All Star AdamGreenwood's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    5,145
    Thanks
    278
    Thanked 1,738 Times in 1,022 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by keggy View Post
    This is a very straightforward exercise. You calculate the value of a first overall pick over a 15th overall pick and compare it to the lost attendance, television, and other revenue of a .500 team over the worst team in baseball.

    Tanking to obtain an incremental increase in draft position for a team that just led the league in attendance and has the largest television market in baseball makes ludicrously bad business sense. We can build for the future without carpet bombing all the positive value the franchise has built up.
    There's a couple of other factors too.
    Having a 50 win team makes it very difficult to sign quality free agents next year, unless we significantly overpay them.
    On the other side, assets like Donaldson and Estrada will depreciate over the year, so we'll get less value back if we trade them now.

    Personally, I'm all for starting the rebuild, but I still want to do our best to put a competitive team out there, or even a team filled with young, talented guys who just need a little more seasoning. This can be easily done by trading good players away for bad contracts + minor league talent. Stick the bad contracts on the field and hope they rebound (ie Liriano), and if not we bought ourselves some decent prospects.

  22. The Following User Says Thank You to AdamGreenwood For This Useful Post:

    Governator (04-21-2017)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •