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Thread: General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2022)

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    Big Leaguer Solaxys's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dagagad View Post
    I don’t care about WAR. I care if a reliever can strike people out or not in high leverage. If most of your relievers habitually give up decent contact, then you are going to give up runs in high leverage.

    If there is a guy on third and one out, can you get a strikeout? If there is a guy on second, with no outs, is your best option a guy like Phelps who anyone can at least put the ball in play against?

    If I’m the Yankees, I absolutely want cimber (such a different look after a starter) and romano (even though romano hasn’t been good this season) and that’s probably it.

    I’d swap our entire bullpen for the Yankees right now and they can keep Holmes. I’ll just take the rest.

    The problem by the way isn’t that our manager wants to be the rays, it’s that the rays front office is capable of giving their manager a good pen.
    This is such a bad way of looking at things though and you'll always be disappointed. Teams are run differently by different FOs.
    Atkins is not going to copy/paste the Yankees FO because its different markets, different atmospheres and different available players.

    If you actually break down Yankees BP to our BP KK/9, the outliers are Holmes/King. Short of that, we have comparable alternates to them - only two relievers have 1 extra K/9 (Castillo/Green v Garcia/Mayza).
    Like did you know, Trevor Richards has 10.36 K/9 across almost 30 innings pitched? More than every single Yankees reliever K/9 except King?

    Our relievers have 50 extra innings compared to the Yankees.
    Yankees predominantly used King/Holmes (34%) while we peppered our usage across every one (only two relievers above 30, Trent being the most at 32).

    Telling you man, our BP sucks because
    1. two-three arms who straight up suck (just don't have the pitches to be relievers in AL East)
    2. some who have forgotten how to not walk people/locate (especially Romano of late - he fucked up his release point for slider and is paying the price)
    3. unlucky/injuries/overuse/mismanagement

    But we also had some good things like Gage, Lawrence, Cimber (even though his ERA is close to 4)

    Swing/miss would be great in high leverage situations and we need them but the lack thereof is not due to Atkins actively going "well we don't need good relievers".
    They are trying, 100%, to find the key amazing Jesus arms that you desperately want and they are using their resources as best they can - but relief arms are a crapshoot every year and consistent ones are locked up.
    It is not simply straight up "oh lets sign cause we need" when there's nothing on the market.
    I promise you Graveman would've been a Jay if there was no restriction because he was drafted by the Jays in 2014 before being traded to Oakland for JD in 2015. So Jays know what he is capable of. Yimi Garcia was the next best option.

    And as Terminator said, we weren't going to buy big on relief arms before we even unlocked our contention window in 2020.

    We tried to see what we needed in 2021, got some arms on deadline - the best we could with the prospect/player/capital we had, and it wasn't enough (I mean Brad Hand came over from Nationals for Riley Adams and he absolutely sucked; ERA before the Jays? 3.59, after the Jays? 2.70; with the Jays? 7.27 || Now Riley Adams is bad but at the time he was our 17th prospect)

    Same with Richards - before coming to the Jays last year? 11.65 K/9, 1.4 HR/9, 3.69 ERA, 3.72 xFIP (swing/miss) | Since coming to the Jays? 4.79 ERA, 5.11 FIP, 10.31 K/9
    Everyone's like "omg we traded Tellez and got fleeced" and its like, he was a good reliever we were getting at the time for someone we had no spot on this team for since moving Vlad to 1st base. Unless everyone thinks it would've been smarter to keep Vlad at 3B and Tellez at 1B instead of Vlad/Chap in corners or unless people thought Tellez would've gotten us Daniel Hudson or some shit and Atkins went "nah, lets get Grandpa Richards instead".

    ---

    People are already inquiring on trades across the league and I am sure Atkins is on the phone asking around too. Its not magically going to fall from the sky because we need it/needed it.

    Unlike others, I don't think we nuke our farm for a one-off reliever, instead, as you said, build a pipeline. That's why I am all for Jansen to Astros for Hunter Brown and Abreu.

    However, I don't know what Atkins will do - he could just pull the trigger on some combination of Moreno/Groshans/Martinez/+/+ to Pirates for Bednar + Reynolds or to Royals for Staumont + Benintendi or to Cubs for David Robertson/Scott Efross + Happ.

    I remember when AA traded Syndegaard and D'Arnaud for RA Dickey because he had 3 good years in NL East at ages 35-37. That trade still haunts me.
    Or trading Hoffman and Castro for Tulowitzki (both good relievers now btw). And nothing really came out of those trades.
    Sure we got to ALCS and lost both times, but we burned the farm and dropped out of contention for 4 yrs cause of those trades.
    Last edited by Solaxys; Today at 03:29 AM.
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