Jays 2021/22 General Off-Season Discussion

[John_Havok]

Hadn’t really considered that option but I do like it! It would add more to the payroll, but if it means adding a Canadian superstar, I wonder if Rogers okays an extra 10-15 mill on top of the 30 they seemed to have for Seager. I just think they still need a backend starter after all that which is why I tend to lean towards a cheaper Bryant.

You're not wrong in thqat there's still rotation concerns. Top 4 is set in stone but #s 5-9 are still in flux.

[MikeM]

I think the pen is actually looking fairly decent right now. Good amount of upside, lots of arms to choose from. It's the rotation depth that's a tad thin

30% will get injured. We need the replacements. That's just baseball nowadays.

[John_Havok]

30% will get injured. We need the replacements. That's just baseball nowadays.

Sure, but the pen list is already 16 names long with guys on the 40 man alone... with Borucki, Castro, Cimber, Danner (longshot - likely AAA), Garcia, Hatch, Kay, Logue (AAA likely), Mayza, Merryweather, Richards, Romano, Saucedo, Snead, Stripling, Thornton. I left Bowden Francis off the list as I think he will be rotation depth, same with Pearson, but ... who knows really.

Not to mention Phelps, De Leon, Gage and Lawrence that are already signed to minor league deals and the forthcoming additional minor league signings with ST invites that will inevitably happen.

My point is that there's no need to be actively seeking major league pen arms unless it's someone who is decidedly top shelf. The middle and lower shelves are pretty well stocked.

[THANOS]

Yeah my bad. A Marte trade makes tons of sense. Though I think i'd still rather sign Freeman and trade for Ketel than signing Bryant. Sure, Bryant would be cheaper, but My money would definitely be on Freeman being far more impactful for longer.

I agree with this.

That said, signing Freeman and trading for Ketal is taking on roughly 35M, while signing Bryant & trading for Ketal could be in the 25-30M range, thus saving 5-10M.

So the question would be two-fold, does the offensive regression of Bryant vs Freeman plus not having that 5-10M for BP/SP5 upgrades outweigh the alternative?

If it were up to me, I sign Freeman and trade for Ketal and call it an offseason happily without any extra upgrades to pitching on top of what we've already done.

[Cbert]

I agree with this.

That said, signing Freeman and trading for Ketal is taking on roughly 35M, while signing Bryant & trading for Ketal could be in the 25-30M range, thus saving 5-10M.

So the question would be two-fold, does the offensive regression of Bryant vs Freeman plus not having that 5-10M for BP/SP5 upgrades outweigh the alternative?

If it were up to me, I sign Freeman and trade for Ketal and call it an offseason happily without any extra upgrades to pitching on top of what we've already done.

I think the one question we have to consider is how much payroll has the FO been authorized to go to. We’re all assuming 30-35 based on the Seager rumours, but maybe they have 40-45 to play around with? I can’t imagine them offering every dollar they had left to Seager. Or that’s a soft payroll they have, and grabbing Freeman/Marte as win now moves motivates Rogers to give them a little more for pitching depth. Getting those two means two-three years of championship expectations and a few more years after that of a young, hopefully extended core to retool around through drafting and free agency.

[John_Havok]

I agree with this.

That said, signing Freeman and trading for Ketal is taking on roughly 35M, while signing Bryant & trading for Ketal could be in the 25-30M range, thus saving 5-10M.

So the question would be two-fold, does the offensive regression of Bryant vs Freeman plus not having that 5-10M for BP/SP5 upgrades outweigh the alternative?

If it were up to me, I sign Freeman and trade for Ketal and call it an offseason happily without any extra upgrades to pitching on top of what we've already done.

If you want my dream scenario... It's signing Freeman, Trading for Ramirez and a pen arm from Cleveland (say... Anthony Gose) and throwing whatever is left at Rodon for 1 year. That leaves Pearson in AAA to try and get straightened up as a rotation piece for when the inevitable injury happens, some additional pen help that is admittedly a bit of a risk but... I love lefties who can throw 100 mph.

The upside is enormous with a rotation of Berrios, Gausman, Manoah, Ryu, Rodon, then having Stripling, Pearson, Logue, Francis, as the 6-9 options seems like a decent start.

Lineup just makes me wet...

Springer CF
Vlad 1b/DH
Freeman 1b/DH
Ramirez 3b
Bo SS
Teo RF
Biggio 2b
LG Jr LF
Jansen C

Kirk
Grichuk
Espinal
whomever wins the last bench role between Lopez, Jimenez, Palacios and Smith

Pen
Romano
Garcia
Cimber
Mayza
Gose
Richards
Stripling
+ whomever wins the last few spots

Yeah, payroll might be 180 million, give or take, but that looks pretty sweet.

[Spanky99]

lol... we need a CBA done!

[Jimcanuck]

If you want my dream scenario... It's signing Freeman, Trading for Ramirez and a pen arm from Cleveland (say... Anthony Gose) and throwing whatever is left at Rodon for 1 year. That leaves Pearson in AAA to try and get straightened up as a rotation piece for when the inevitable injury happens, some additional pen help that is admittedly a bit of a risk but... I love lefties who can throw 100 mph.

The upside is enormous with a rotation of Berrios, Gausman, Manoah, Ryu, Rodon, then having Stripling, Pearson, Logue, Francis, as the 6-9 options seems like a decent start.

Lineup just makes me wet...

Springer CF
Vlad 1b/DH
Freeman 1b/DH
Ramirez 3b
Bo SS
Teo RF
Biggio 2b
LG Jr LF
Jansen C

Kirk
Grichuk
Espinal
whomever wins the last bench role between Lopez, Jimenez, Palacios and Smith

Pen
Romano
Garcia
Cimber
Mayza
Gose
Richards
Stripling
+ whomever wins the last few spots

Yeah, payroll might be 180 million, give or take, but that looks pretty sweet.

You've traded Moreno for Ramirez. Terrible.

[John_Havok]

lol... we need a CBA done!

Yes.... yes we do

According to a recent report "MLB has proposed raising the major league minimum salary from $570,500 to a series of tiers: $600,000 for players with less than a year of big league service, $650,000 for at least one but less than two and $700,000 for at least two. Each would rise $10,000 annually, to $640,000, $690,000 and $740,000 in 2026."

The report didn't say when this was proposed or any other details of what else was involved in the proposal.

[John_Havok]

You've traded Moreno for Ramirez. Terrible.

AND Gose. Clearly Gose puts that trade over the top

I guess the alternative would be Trading for Ketel Marte using Kirk + Groshans, but Moreno surely wouldn't be used as a backup, so enter the wonderfully shitty world of having McGuire as the backup.

Lineup changes to:

Springer CF
Vlad 1b/DH
Freeman 1b/DH
Marte 3b
Bo SS
Teo RF
Biggio 2b
LG Jr LF
Jansen C

McGuire
Grichuk
Espinal
whomever wins the last bench role between Lopez, Jimenez, Palacios and Smith

In that scenario, my boner from the starting lineup goes flaccid quickly when I think of the bench.

[Dick_Pole]

The more I think about it, the more I like this McNeil suggestion. He profiles as someone who the Jays tend to do well with. Kind of late bloomer who pulled back a bit recently and worn out his welcome on his current team. Shows sporadic signs of pop. Story similar to Encarnacion but can get on base. 25 home runs with .380 OBP which I think is achievable for him at the Rogers Centre is a decent offensive replacement for Semien. Not sure why the Mets are willing to sell low though and how low is low.

[MikeM]

The more I think about it, the more I like this McNeil suggestion. He profiles as someone who the Jays tend to do well with. Kind of late bloomer who pulled back a bit recently and worn out his welcome on his current team. Shows sporadic signs of pop. Story similar to Encarnacion but can get on base. 25 home runs with .380 OBP which I think is achievable for him at the Rogers Centre is a decent offensive replacement for Semien. Not sure why the Mets are willing to sell low though and how low is low.

He's only hitting 25 bombs with the 2019 ball.

[Jimcanuck]

Jays don't need a slugging 3B. With the power already in the line-up, a .350+ OBP 3B is a good fit. If McNeil hits 15-20 bombs himself, even better.

McNeil is a better lineup fit then a slugging K machine like Grichuk/Chapman. Although Chapman's D gives him the overall edge over McNeil.

[John_Havok]

Dark horse candidate for the #5 rotation spot… Dan Straily. He’s coming back from Korea. Had a pretty great 2020 over there, and a not so great 2021. Threw 195 and 165 innings so wouldn’t be worried about innings limits and he would be fairly cheap with a decent chance to not suck.

Since he is coming back Korea he’s also free to talk to teams during the lockout even though he cannot sign a major league deal until it’s over

[JFD]

Jays don't need a slugging 3B. With the power already in the line-up, a .350+ OBP 3B is a good fit. If McNeil hits 15-30 bombs himself, even better.

McNeil is a better lineup fit then a slugging K machine like Grichuk/Chapman. Although Chapman's D gives him the overall edge over McNeil.

He also calls out and fights dbag teammates which is always a bonus

[Spanky99]

Dark horse candidate for the #5 rotation spot… Dan Straily. He’s coming back from Korea. Had a pretty great 2020 over there, and a not so great 2021. Threw 195 and 165 innings so wouldn’t be worried about innings limits and he would be fairly cheap with a decent chance to not suck.

Since he is coming back Korea he’s also free to talk to teams during the lockout even though he cannot sign a major league deal until it’s over

Eeewwwwww... think bigger.